The first year that official Maundy coins were struck

[UK Decimal +]

We know that the Maundy Ceremony has existed for centuries and still continues.   That is not in question, nor is the existence of the coins used for the Ceremony.   We also know that for many years only the penny was used and that there are few years in which all four denominations were struck, until the dates mentioned below.   There have been many coins struck for circulation which are identical in design to the ones used for the Ceremony.

After puzzling over the fact that the silver 4d, 3d, 2d and 1d coins are only still legal tender if dated 1822 onwards, and that similar coins were struck in 1817, 1818 and 1820 (i.e. subsequent to the Recoinage Act of 1816) which are not legal tender, I decided to do some investigating.

Unfortunately, the 1816 Act does not seem to be available on-line, but a copy of it is included in Coincraft's 1997 Standard Catalogue of English & UK Coins 1066 to Date, and I will quote the relevant section from there.

Reading the Act, there is no mention of Maundy Money, nor is there any direct reference to silver coins of 4d, 3d, 2d, 1d.   The Act only mentions in section IV:   ... (silver) be coined in Crowns, Half Crowns, Shillings or Sixpences, or Pieces of a lower Denomination ... ... .   Note that this would include the coins dated 1817, 1818 and 1820.

Next I referred to the London Gazette, and despite searching for "Maundy" from 1665 onwards, the earliest relevant entry was a Proclamation by the H.M. King George IV issued on 21 March 1821.   This Proclamation includes the wording (which quotes the intent of the Act) ... crowns or five shilling pieces, shillings, sixpences, and other small silver monies, usually denominated Maundy monies, namely, fourpenny, threepenny, twopenny, and penny pieces (in addition to the other denominations of silver monies), ... ... .   At last the word Maundy appears in an official document.   The 'official' start of Maundy Money rather than just coins used for Maundy purposes?

It appears that the term 'Maundy monies' was in use, but had no official standing.   I suggest that only coins struck subsequent to the Gazette notice are true Maundy Money.   This would apply to strikes dated 1822 onwards and full sets of all four coins have been struck every year until at least 2010, and presumably 2011 coins are similar.   Coins prior to 1822 would appear to be non-Maundy coins (even if they might have been struck specially for Maundy purposes).

Has anyone any other relevant information?

Bill.

[akona20]

"Maundy money as such started in the reign of Charles II with an undated issue of hammered coins in 1662. The coins were a fourpenny, threepenny, twopenny and one penny piece but it was not until 1670 that a dated set of all four coins appeared."



This is from the Royal Mint so I assume some accuracy.

[UK Decimal +]

"Maundy money as such started in the reign of Charles II with an undated issue of hammered coins in 1662. The coins were a fourpenny, threepenny, twopenny and one penny piece but it was not until 1670 that a dated set of all four coins appeared."


This is from the Royal Mint so I assume some accuracy.

None of that is in question.

I have been trying to trace the first reference to Maundy coins as opposed to coins for Maundy purposes.   The undated hammered issue (etc.) appear to be ordinary coins which happened to be used for Maundy purposes and happen to be a time when all four denominations were issued together.

The first official mention of coins specifically referred to as Maundy appears to be the entry in the Gazette during 1821; this gives us the 1822 issue since when special coins have been struck every year.

Can you quote any legal document (including a Gazette enrty) that specifically mentions Maundy coins before 1821?   Can you explain why the coins of 1817, 1818 and 1820 are not legal tender whereas those of 1822 until today are legal tender?

I do not put too much faith in the Royal Mint website as it is sales-orientated.

Any definate information, especially about the years 1817, 1818 and 1820 would be welcome.

Bill.

[UK Decimal +]

I think that I should try to put in simple words what I am trying to establish here.

1)   That the first LEGAL reference to "Maundy monies" was in 1821.   The term is still in LEGAL use today.

2)   That the 1817, 1818 and 1820 4d to 1d silver coins were either not issued by Proclamation (i.e. they were never legal tender) or that they might have been issued against a Proclamation made BEFORE the 1816 Act.

It is strange that these three years, post 1816 Act, are not legal tender today, whereas the coins issued dated 1822 are still legal tender.

I am preparing a table of silver coins issued from the passing of the Act, which will show the Proclamation date.   It will also be interesting to see if the other denominations which were issued as proofs only were in fact legal tender.   I will take this table up to the first coins of Queen Victoria.

In the meantime, any information or suggestions would be very welcome.

Bill.

[Prosit]

Maundy coins are considered lucky coins by those that collect lucky coins. Pretty sure that refers to the older stuff and touch pieces and not the modern stuff.  Interesting thread.
Dale

[andyg]

My thoughts...

1d) (Silver), Maundy only from 1817, the 1806/7 copper Pennies it has been suggested were issued upto c1820.
2d) (Silver), As 1d, with three exceptions - 1838, 1843, 1848 which were struck for colonial use.
3d) 1817-1833 Maundy, from 1834 is it recorded they were issued to the colonies.  It is not until 1845 that the silver 3d was issued for the mainland.
4d) The Britannia Groat (from 1836) is smaller than the Maundy '4', why have two sizes of coin?
Also the Groat was the same size as the 3d - the two did not co-exist together well, which would also suggest that the 3d was not in circulation at it's introduction.

these are only my thoughts - Feel free to pull them apart

[UK Decimal +]

2d) (Silver), As 1d, with three exceptions - 1838, 1843, 1848 which were struck for colonial use.

Thank you for the reply.

I still have a question mark against the 1843 2d.   Some catalogues omit it (and quote 1838 and 1848 only), others include it, as a circulation coin.   I am having difficulty getting one and I wonder whether, perhaps, they might have been dated 1838.   All that I have seen advertised appear to be in non-circulated condition which might make the 1843 2d Maundy only.   Any ideas on this?

Bill.

[andyg]

Thank you for the reply.

I still have a question mark against the 1843 2d.   Some catalogues omit it (and quote 1838 and 1848 only), others include it, as a circulation coin.   I am having difficulty getting one and I wonder whether, perhaps, they might have been dated 1838.   All that I have seen advertised appear to be in non-circulated condition which might make the 1843 2d Maundy only.   Any ideas on this?

Bill.

Coincraft reports all three dates as being struck for use in British Guyana.

Krause records the mintages as 1,045,000; 903,000 and 261,000 respectively.
I do not know where the mintage figures come from, they marked as estimates.

[Ukrainii Pyat]

If you are desirous of proffering off your pre-1822 Maundies in my little Duchy, you are the more welcome for it.  I will treat them as legal tender of the realm all the while and even extend a premium for them thus.

[UK Decimal +]

This project is really growing!

I am working on a tabulation of silver coins from the Act of 1816.   Starting with a basic list of coins (denominations across, years down), so that I can put the Proclamation date against them, I am already finding such things as "Half-crown, 1824, Proof in copper, plain edge".   If I am unable to find this particular combination Proclaimed legal tender, I shall have to get it redefined as a Pattern!

Finding every relevant entry in the London Gazette, and studying it, will take some time, but I'll get it done as soon as time permits.   When I have the info summarized, I will post it here and also pass it to a suitable expert at the Royal Mint for comments - I understand that the RM are working on an additional website for historic matters and hopefully my information might find a place there.

More will follow and if necessary I will split this topic to cover other than Maundy monies.   In the meantime, any assistance with relevant information would be appreciated - note that a question has now arisen about 1843 2d for circulation!

Bill.

[UK Decimal +]

In case you're wondering, from all the information that I have looked at, I still think that the first legal reference to "Maundy monies" is in a Proclamation issued during 1821 and that before then it was covered by wording such as "... sixpences and other small monies".

Please try to prove me wrong - that might save me from having to do a lot of searching!   Remember that we all know that Maundy money had been distributed, and also in some cases specially struck, for many years before then, but the point is the legal name for the coins before 1821.

Bill.

[Prosit]

Speaking of legal name...where and how did the word Maunday originate?

Dale

[Figleaf]

From "mandatum", command, which is the first word of the first antiphon sung at the religious ceremony: Mandatum novum do vobis (I give you a new command). John 13.

Peter

[UK Decimal +]

Speaking of legal name...where and how did the word Maunday originate?

Dale

For full details of Maundy, I recommend http://www.maundymoney.info/ which covers most aspects of the ceremony and some about the coins.

Bill.