Author Topic: Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?  (Read 5298 times)

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Offline Coinsforever

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Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?
« on: December 15, 2010, 01:23:34 AM »
Your average numismatist may or may not indulge in coin collecting.

One could also say on the other side of the coin a person who spends their time collecting coins could or could not be a numismatist. The hobby of coin collecting can be traced back to the fourteenth century and some have even said the Roman emperors were known to have coin collections but it really is not known if it was a genuine hobby or if they may just have been hoarding the coins!

The hoarding of coins goes back to the very beginning of coinage where people kept them for the coin's value and coin collecting later developed and is known as the "Hobby of Kings" as well.

Because of the number of coins that have been minted throughout history are so vast no coin collector could ever hope to collect a sample of every coin produced. Probably King Farouk of Egypt, with the vast resources he had access to may have had the largest and most spectacular general collection in the world during the mid twentieth century.

Also because of the vast range of coins on this planet two types of coin collecting have emerged - the generalist who collects a bit of everything in the way of coins and the completists, who wants to have an example of everything within a certain range of coins. The only collector known thus far to have assembled the complete set of known US coins is Louis Eliasberg.

Coin collecting could be divided into the following specialty areas or collections:

Country Collections are where coin collectors obtain examples from every country that issues coins but these could also be collectors who try collecting every coin from a certain country - normally their own

Year Collections is coin collecting of certain type of coin from a certain year or trying to collect a certain type of coin from all the years that coin was minted.

Mintmark Collections apply to coin collecting of coins produced by different mints that carry their distinct mark on their coins. Some mintmarks are rarer than others and this is what makes collecting different mintmarks exciting for collectors.

Variety Collections are coin collecting of the same coin produced from different dies and these collections are commoner among old coins that could come from hand carved dies.

Error Collections are collecting of coins with errors in them but since the 19th century when production methods were refined, this has become rarer today. Even in this day and age errors such as over-dates, re-punched mint marks, double strikes and off center coins do happen. Coins that carry different denominations on their two sides are known as mules.

Coin collecting under certain Subjects and only of a certain Period in history are also very popular themes as well as coins making up Composition Collections. These are collections of coins made from certain materials like gold, silver and platinum but not only limited the precious metals.

Coin collecting may be taken up for investment purposes too but again be warned in that certain coins could lose their value over time. As already stated you don't have to be a numismatist to undertake coin collecting but it wouldn't hurt and you defiantly must be passionate about this form of collecting.

Source http://ezinearticles.com/?Does-Coin-Collecting-Mean-One-is-a-Numismatist?&id=617789

In above article it is mention that

Quote // King Farouk of Egypt, with the vast resources he had access to may have had the largest and most spectacular general collection in the world during the mid twentieth century// unquote


Any comments on it

Cheers
;D
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 05:36:46 PM by <k> »
Every experience, good or bad, is a priceless collector's item.



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Offline Abhay

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Re: Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2010, 01:31:21 AM »
Well, the signature line of Figleaf says it all "An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.". For a simple coin collector, a coin is just a piece of metal, lying somewhere in a box, but for a numismatist, the coin will have its full details like the metal, weight, size, ruler, country, year, etc.

Abhay
INVESTING IN YESTERDAY

Offline Prosit

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Re: Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2010, 03:34:31 AM »
I consider myself a numismatist because I study and research the coins tokens and medals I collect as well as the country's history and other associated information. (Some more than others). I just finished an overview book on Bangladesh...Wish I could go see it.

My mother also collects coins but she can't even tell you if an issue is Silver or not or anything about them.  She is not a numismatist imo.

Dale

Austrokiwi

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Re: Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2010, 07:30:00 AM »
From the article I fall mainly in the category:
 
Quote
Variety Collections are coin collecting of the same coin produced from different dies and these collections are commoner among old coins that could come from hand carved dies

But as for being a numismatist I suppose you could apply that label........but I would feel more comfortable with "student of Numismatics"

Offline Salvete

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Re: Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2010, 11:55:26 AM »
Like Austrokiwi, I feel that most collectors who take more than a passing interest in the coins they collect, and spend many hours to research the links between the coins and their history, thereby adding, however modestly to the fund of knowledge and understanding of their coins, is best described as a student, and the vey best among us (such as Jan Lingen, Stan Goron, Om Prakash. PP Kulkarni, Shaillen Bhandare, KK Maheshwari, Bill Spengler, Ken Wiggins, James Prinsep, and maybe 100 others in relation to Indian series, along with those who work on other series, and whose work and names I do not know) are the numismatists - people we go to for reliable information, trustworthy opinions and great articles and books.  But, as Shakespear wrote, "What's in a name?"

Salvete
Ultimately, our coins are only comprehensible against the background of their historical context.

Offline Prosit

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Re: Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2010, 01:25:21 PM »
I certainly agree with those sentiments.   I also play a guitar but am I a guitarist?  I think not ....I am not a musician either....amateur enthusiast at best.  Names can help communicate what you do and your attitudes and activities to an extent but they do not define you.

Dale


...But, as Shakespear wrote, "What's in a name?"
Salvete

Offline Coinsforever

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Re: Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2010, 09:11:21 AM »


Quote // King Farouk of Egypt, with the vast resources he had access to may have had the largest and most spectacular general collection in the world during the mid twentieth century// unquote [/b][/color]

Any comments on it

Cheers
;D

Sounds well , does above statement about King Farouk is valid.
Every experience, good or bad, is a priceless collector's item.



http://knowledge-numismatics.blogspot.in/

Offline Coinsforever

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Subsequent to above

Refer this interesting article
Numismatic "Gumshoe:" On the Trail of King Farouk

King Farouk: Personifying "the Hobby of Kings"
King Farouk the First of Egypt, who reigned from 1936 until 1952, was a prolific collector.  His taste for the rare and unusual was the catalyst for his assemblage of a diverse collection of items from around the world, even including some unsavory "collectibles."   His coin collection included an estimated 8,500 gold coins and medals.   King Farouk made most of his coin purchases in the 1940s, in an era when a numismatic dollar (and an Egyptian pound) went a long way.

Several American dealers supplied the king with coins, but they soon discovered that a downside to selling to him was that it usually took a long time to receive payment, especially if the invoice totaled more than $10,000. The larger invoices had to be routed to the Egyptian treasury, significantly increasing the time it took for the payment to be received, whereas the king had the authority to authorize payment of the smaller invoices. Not surprisingly, the American dealers soon learned to limit the invoices to less than $10,000. When all was said and done, King Farouk had amassed one of the largest, most important collections of coins in the history of numismatics.



The King Farouk Auction: A Numismatic Legend



After the Egyptian military forced King Farouk to flee the country in 1952, the American coin dealers had a great interest in what was to become of the Farouk Collection. Abe Kosoff goes into great detail in his book concerning the pre-sale uncertainty and negotiations that took place. Eventually the Egyptian government established a sale date and the London firm of Baldwin & Co. was hired to describe the coins, with Sotheby & Co. publishing the catalog. The coins and medals volume was one of a set of Sotheby catalogs entitled The Palace Collections of Egypt , which offered several categories of the king's collectibles, but did not mention King Farouk by name.

Because Fred Baldwin had to catalog the coins in Cairo, under military guard, and in a short period of time, it was not possible to do the great collection justice.   Due to its sheer size, most of the coins were sold in large lots (often with fifteen or twenty coins per lot), sorted by denomination, with a variety of dates and mintmarks.   Thus, most lots had a combination of rare and common coins.

A number of well-known American dealers and collectors attended the sale in Cairo. Dealers in attendance included Abe Kosoff, Sol Kaplan, Bob Schermerhorn, James Randall, Paul Wittlin, and Hans Schulman. Prominent collectors included John J. Pittman, Gaston DiBello, and Ambassador & Mrs. R. Henry Norweb.

A number of factors prevented the coins from reaching their optimum value at the auction. These included the remote location, the uncertain financial arrangements, the political instability, the large lots, and the awkward manner in which the coins were presented for lot viewing. Collectors such as John J. Pittman realized the true opportunity to acquire important pieces at "fire sale" prices and made the most of it.   Mr. Pittman reportedly took out a second mortgage on his residence to finance the trip and his purchases, which turned out to be among the most significant of his numismatic career.

The sale was complicated by the fact that King Farouk had outstanding bills in excess of $300,000 from dealer Hans Schulman.  After much uncertainty and following negotiations with the Egyptian government, an arrangement was made whereby Mr. Schulman was issued a credit in the amount of the due bills, against which auction purchases could be made. In order to recover his financial interest, Mr. Schulman became a major buyer at the auction, often allowing other dealers to obtain coins from his repurchased lots.

After reading about the "cloak and dagger" surrounding the King Farouk auction, I was fascinated!I wanted to acquire a King Farouk piece that would fit my specialty, Dahlonega gold coins.

The King Farouk Auction Catalog: Realizing that the Trail was Cold

Not long afterward I had occasion to attend the Anniversary Convention of the American Numismatic Association, held in late July 1993 in Baltimore, Maryland.   I can remember fantasizing as I flew on the jet from Atlanta to Baltimore, pretending that I was on my way to Cairo, Egypt in 1954 for the King Farouk auction.   I really enjoyed the convention, which I attended with my father. One of the items that I acquired in Baltimore was an original copy of the coins and medals volume of The Palace Collections of Egypt , obtained from numismatic literature dealer Charles Davis.

It didn"t take me long to search out the large lots of gold coins that contained Dahlonega pieces.   One aspect of the catalog was disappointing, from a research standpoint.   Not a single Dahlonega coin was plated in the catalog.   Even if some had been, it probably would have been of only marginal value, as the catalog is well-known for the abysmal coin photography.   It was obvious to me that it would be impossible to trace a Dahlonega coin to the Farouk auction based on the Sotheby catalog alone.   At the convention I also had my first lesson on the value of the Farouk pedigree.   An XF40 1844-C half eagle traced to the Farouk auction, which catalogued for $2,700, brought $5,720 in the Heritage Numismatic Auctions sale in Baltimore. I also got to meet Farouk auction attendee John J. Pittman at the convention.

Source : GoldrushGallery
Every experience, good or bad, is a priceless collector's item.



http://knowledge-numismatics.blogspot.in/

Offline Prosit

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Re: Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2010, 02:18:08 AM »
Which in my mind doesn't really answer the question,  "Was he a Numismatist?"  Not a doubt he had one of the most impressive collection ever.

Dale

Offline Salvete

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Re: Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2010, 10:12:40 AM »
I suspect that King Farrouk was a very busy man, with plenty of important matters to take up most of his time.  It is always possible that he also researched certain coin series, but, so far as I know, he never wrote on the subject.  In all probablility he was a great collector, but with little time for study.  Spending a lot of money can make a man or woman into a collector who has an enviable collection, but only time, experience and study will make him or her into a student, I feel.

Salvete
Ultimately, our coins are only comprehensible against the background of their historical context.

Offline Prosit

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Re: Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2010, 02:12:22 PM »
I agree completely.

Dale

I suspect that King Farrouk was a very busy man, with plenty of important matters to take up most of his time.  It is always possible that he also researched certain coin series, but, so far as I know, he never wrote on the subject.  In all probablility he was a great collector, but with little time for study.  Spending a lot of money can make a man or woman into a collector who has an enviable collection, but only time, experience and study will make him or her into a student, I feel.

Salvete

Offline Coinsforever

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Re: Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2010, 01:31:57 AM »
Another article continues............

One of the missing Double Eagles was acquired by King Farouk of Egypt, who was a voracious collector of many things, including Imperial Fabergé eggs, antique aspirin bottles, paperweights, postage stamps—and coins, of which he had a collection of over 8,500. In 1944 Farouk purchased a 1933 Double Eagle, and in strict adherence with the law, his ministers applied to the United States Treasury Department for an export license for the coin. Mistakenly, just days before the Mint theft was discovered, the license was granted. The Treasury Department attempted to work through diplomatic channels to request the return of the coin from Egypt, but World War II delayed their efforts for several years. In 1952 King Farouk was deposed in a coup d'etat, and many of his possessions were made available for public auction (run by Sotheby's) – including the Double Eagle coin. The United States Government requested the return of the coin, and the Egyptian government stated that it would comply with the request. However, at that time the coin disappeared and was not seen again in Egypt.

Source :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1933_Double_Eagle

refer links :http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,8218.msg53853.html#msg53853
Every experience, good or bad, is a priceless collector's item.



http://knowledge-numismatics.blogspot.in/

Offline Prosit

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Re: Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2010, 10:19:21 PM »
After reviewing the definition of numismatics, I've changed my mind.  Basically, the definitions I read define numismatics as the study or collecting of coins tokens medals paper money etc.
So we all are one weather we admit it or not or want a stricter interperation  ;D

Dale

Offline kansal888

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Re: Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2011, 03:14:40 PM »
I think merely possessing vast collection of coins does not makes one numismatist.
In a true sense, a numismatist is a fellow who loves coins ;D

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Does Coin Collecting Mean One is a Numismatist?
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2011, 05:44:51 PM »
Yes, indeed. The epitome of ignorant collectors in my mind are the Hunt brothers. They had gathered a collection of pricey silver coins during their quest to corner the silver market. When they lost out, they sold the collection. None of their actions speak of a love of coins.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.