Author Topic: Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho  (Read 11933 times)

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Online Figleaf

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Re: Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2012, 10:22:34 AM »
I think the minting equipment in the pictures is not as old as pretended. The idea may be old, but in the 17th century, it was not possible to make precision rails in metal. Remember that Gustave Eiffel's constructions were a breakthrough in the area of building with large metal pieces. Remember that the guillotine and all types of mints were made of wood, with only the dies or knife and the small parts made of metal. Remember that the knife of the guillotine would regularly get stuck in the (wooden) rails, to the utter discomfort of the victim.

The original machines were probably fine to produce short series of large coins, but they couldn't replace a hammer or a screw press for a long series.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline cmerc

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Re: Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2014, 12:27:56 AM »
Old thread I came across today.  Wonderful article by Oesho, followed by an equally animated discussion! 

There seemed to be some queries on how these large gold coins were manufactured.  Recently there was a huge Australian gold coin produced by the Perth mint.  I wonder if similar techniques were used, despite the difference in era and technology.
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Offline Manzikert

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Re: Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2014, 12:52:31 PM »
From this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1KoF8Ik24Y it was definitely cast.

Alan

Offline cmerc

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Re: Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2014, 06:58:16 PM »
From this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1KoF8Ik24Y it was definitely cast.

Alan
Never mind then.  The experts seem to agree that the large Mughal coins were die struck.  Also, the Australian coin is much larger, at 1 ton (1,000,000 grams).  A 1000 mohur coin will be ~11,660 grams.   String a smaller coin would possibly more manageable. 

Also, the 1000 mohur had a diameter of 210 mm, which is big but still smaller than a standard 30 cm/15 inch ruler.  I imagine string such a big, but not huge, coin will be challenging, but certainly possible.  As a MechE, the first challenge I see is how achieve uniform striking pressure throughout the flan, so that the strike depth is uniform throughout. 
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Online Figleaf

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Re: Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2014, 10:30:45 PM »
What the major challenge is depends on the technology used. If these coins were somehow hammered (including the falling hammer, suggested by Oesho above) it would be to prevent echo striking. If it was done on a screw press, the major challenge is to keep the (metal) screw from breaking the (wooden) press frame with the upward movement after the strike.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Pellinore

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Re: Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2015, 02:35:59 AM »
What a fascinating thread. If you want a large chunk of gold, here are some examples. To me, they are large and costly works of art, not coins.

I prefer a coin to be easily hand-held, like a silver dollar, or looked at appreciatively when it's between your fingers: a beautiful drachm, denarius or medieval penny with its darks and lights. Old widows' trembling hands can hold only a few dark brown mites: little copper coins, roughly made. And bankers want their coins in easy stacks: shiny, but flat and exactly round, merrily ringing gold ducats.
-- Paul

Offline Bimat

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Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2017, 05:21:24 AM »
The missing legacy of 1000-mohur gold

Syed Akbar | TNN | Updated: Apr 6, 2017, 08.29 AM IST

Mystery continues to shroud the 1000-mohur gold coin of Emperor Aurangzeb. It is the largest gold coin ever minted in the world, and weighs 11.193 kgs.

Emperor Aurangzeb presented this huge coin to Nawab Ghaziuddin Khan Siddiqui Bahadur, Feroze Jung I, whose son Nizam-ul-Mulk founded the Asaf Jah dynasty. For a little over two centuries, the coin passed from one generation to the next in the Nizam's family before coming into the possession of Mukarram Jah, the titular Nizam VIII.

According to city historians, the gold coin was put up for auction at Hapsberg Feldmann in Geneva in 1987. The Indian government, which regards the coin as a treasure of Indian heritage, however failed to intervene in time to stop the auction. But the auction was not successful as the price quoted by interested parties was far below the expectation. This came as a saving grace for the Indian government.

The coin was reportedly mortgaged with the Banque de Credit Suisse for an undisclosed sum. Its present status is not known.

"Gold coins of 100-mohurs and above were minted for presentation to loyal subjects and nobles in recognition of their accomplishment. Feroze Jung I had received the 1000-mohur coin in special appreciation of his bravery," said city historian Dr Mohammad Safiullah.

The existence of the gigantic gold coin in the Asaf Jah dynasty came to light only after it was put up for auction in Switzerland.

The 1000- mohur coin has a diametre of 20.3 cm with two couplets inscribed in beautiful Persian calligraphy. The emperor Shahjahan, Aurangzeb's father, is credited with ordering the minting of 100-mohur gold coins weighing 1.1660 kgs each.

Old Hyderabadis believe that the prince was taken for a ride by everyone, while the list of those dependent on him kept expanding relatives (14,792), and servants (14,000). It was the burden of having to deal with so many trusts and their beneficiaries that had caused Mukarram Jah to leave for Australia for good.

Source: Times of India
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Offline Oesho

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Re: Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2017, 10:14:11 AM »
The TOI article is full of errors, he should had read some of the publications about these gigantic coins, but also on the Internet (like this website), but also on ZENO.http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=119784 much more and accurate information can be obtained.
Moreover this gigantic mohur is not lost, but now adorns the collection of the Sheikh of Kuwait, displayed at the Museum of Islamic Art in Kuwait City.

Offline jazz

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Re: Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2017, 11:01:24 AM »
Sharing this link of the museum which Oesho mentioned of in his post above -

https://darmuseum.org.kw/the-collections/numismatics/

Vishal

Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2017, 11:04:41 AM »

Moreover this gigantic mohur is not lost, but now adorns the collection of the Sheikh of Kuwait, displayed at the Museum of Islamic Art in Kuwait City.

Thankfully it is not kept for his own personal viewing but is presumably available for anyone to see at the museum
Vic

Offline Bimat

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Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2017, 11:40:17 AM »
The TOI article is full of errors, he should had read some of the publications about these gigantic coins, but also on the Internet (like this website), but also on ZENO.http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=119784 much more and accurate information can be obtained.
Moreover this gigantic mohur is not lost, but now adorns the collection of the Sheikh of Kuwait, displayed at the Museum of Islamic Art in Kuwait City.


Thanks Oesho. How did the Sheikh of Kuwait get hold of 1000 mohur? ???

Aditya
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Offline capnbirdseye

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Re: Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2017, 11:48:19 AM »
Thanks Oesho. How did the Sheikh of Kuwait get hold of 1000 mohur? ???

Aditya

Just used his spare change  :D
Vic

Offline Oesho

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Re: Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2017, 06:15:01 PM »
You know the proverb: Two dogs fighting for a bone, the third will get away with it. This is what happened, the Indian Government were claiming the piece, but as it was already in Zwitserland long before WW II, the Indian Government had therefore no legal claim, but they went on fighting about it (and they where not willing to provide any compensation to the owner either and claimed it as State property) so than the third party got away with it. It is really a shame that for a couple of millions they lost the greatest numismatic treasure they could ever lay their hands on.

Offline Saikat

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Re: Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2017, 04:54:05 PM »
Recently I visited Fitzwilliam Museum at Cambridge. There I found this display of cast copy replica of 200 Mohur of Shah Jahan. The interesting aspect is this is displayed along with other Mughal coins of common denomination, so we get to understand how huge these  coins were.
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« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 08:36:00 PM by Saikat »
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Offline Oesho

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Re: Gigantic coins, written and illustrated by Oesho
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2017, 05:12:44 PM »
I have only a gypsum model of it (see the start of this thread). As all copies are made of one and the same model, the should be also of one and the same date.
In the description with the Fitzwilliam Museum they mentioned the date is AH1065, but in fact it is AH1064. The description therefore is wrong.