1838 4d 'groat' variations

[UK Decimal +]

Here, on the face of it, are two ordinary 1838 groats.

On the reverse, however, there is a problem with the year.

CY2010 lists an 1837 with the 7 over a last 8 on its side - clearly not that one.   1838 is shown as a single entry.
Krause KM#731.1 shows an ordinary 1838 and also 1838/8.   Could it be that I now have one of each?

Any comments would be appreciated.

Bill.

[andyg]

The coin does look different, but it's hard to be sure from the picture.
There are lots of unlisted overdates for the Victorian series which need documenting so it's entirely possible you have something different...

[Figleaf]

The threes seem to be placed too low, but that may have been on purpose. What's a real giveaway that something is going on here is the alignment of the second 8. On the left coin it is too low (but in line with the three), on the right coin well aligned. The overdates of this period were probably obtained by a separate punch, rather than a re-engraved die. I suspect that with high magnification, the left coin will turn out to be an overdate.

Peter

[UK Decimal +]

I've studied these coins closely.   The left one is a perfect date, whereas the best that I can make of the right-hand one is that it might have started as '&' and then been corrected.

I've played with the picture and that might help.

Bill.

[tonyclayton]

There are two points here.

Firstly, as someone correctly surmised, the date figures were punched by hand at that time, so it is no wonder that minor variations occur in orientation.  I suggest that there is no great significance to minor variations such as those illustrated.

As to the shape of the 8, in worn coins it is impossible to be sure that no post-minting damage has taken place.