Author Topic: Jahangir Rupee, Dehli mint, AH1024/RY9, KM#145.6  (Read 4876 times)

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Offline Rangnath

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Jahangir Rupee, Dehli mint, AH1024/RY9, KM#145.6
« on: December 12, 2009, 03:01:13 AM »
The coin weighs 11.3 grams and measures 19.5 mm across. I can not locate it in a catalog.  Can you help me?
I'm also confused by the number (ry?) 9.  If it signifies the ry., that would make the date 1023, right?
richie
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 12:22:09 AM by Rangnath »

Offline Overlord

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Re: Jahangir Rupee, AH 1024; needs further information
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2009, 05:14:32 AM »
Dehli mint, AH1022/RY9, KM#145.6

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Jahangir Rupee, Dehli mint, AH1022/RY9, KM#145.6
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2009, 04:44:38 AM »
I know I've asked before. As I recall, Oesho gave me an answer to this once but I can not find it now.  Overlord and Amit, which books and catalogs would you recommend that might contain decent images and information on Moghul coins?
richie

Offline Overlord

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Re: Jahangir Rupee, Dehli mint, AH1022/RY9, KM#145.6
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 06:02:05 AM »
I know I've asked before. As I recall, Oesho gave me an answer to this once but I can not find it now.  Overlord and Amit, which books and catalogs would you recommend that might contain decent images and information on Moghul coins?
richie
I do not think a single book would be satisfactory. The museum catalogs are, in general, quite exhaustive, but the plates are often poor. Here is a list of the ones I have or know of (download links are included for the ones that are now in Public Domain):

Museum catalogs

Coins of the Mughal Emperors of Hindustan in the British Museum by Stanley Lane-Poole

Catalogue Of Coins In The Panjab Museum Lahore: Vol II (Coins of the Mughal Emperors) by R.B. Whitehead
Download Link: http://www.archive.org/details/catalogueofcoins02lahouoft

Catalogue of coins in the Provincial museum, Lucknow: Vol. I (Prefaces and Plates) by C.J. Brown
Download Link: http://www.archive.org/details/catalogueofcoins01luck

Catalogue of coins in the Provincial museum, Lucknow: Vol. II (Catalogue) by C.J. Brown
Download Link: http://www.archive.org/details/catalogueofcoins02luckiala

Catalogue Of The Coins In The Indian Museum, Calcutta (Vol. III: Mughal Emperors) by H.Nelson Wright
Download Link: http://www.archive.org/details/CatalogueOfTheCoinsInTheIndianMuseumCalcutta

Coins of the Mughal Emperors, Central Museum, Nagpur (Part I) (Babar to Aurangzeb) by M.K. Hussain

Coins of the Later Mughal Emperors, Central Museum, Nagpur (Part II) (Azam Shah to Bahadur Shah II) by M.K. Hussain
Available online here.

Collector's Guide to Muhammedan Coins of India 1200-1860AD by Donald Hull (based on museum catalogs)


General

The Standard Guide to South Asian Coins and Paper Money Since 1556 (First edition) (for pre-1600 coinage of Akbar)

Couplets on Mughal Coins of India by Manik Jain

The Copper Coins of India (Volumes I and II) by W.H. Valentine (highly recommended for coppers of nearly all Mughal emperors; excellent illustrations; not all mints are covered though)

Collectors Guide to Mughal Coins by Dilip Rajgor (not very detailed)


Specialized

Zahir Uddin Muhammad Babur. A Numismatic Study by Aman Ur Rahman
Coinage of Akbar: The Connoisseur's Choice by Andrew Liddle
Coins of Jahangir by Ashok Singh Thakur (not a detailed catalogue)


Offline Oesho

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Re: Jahangir Rupee, Dehli mint, AH1022/RY9, KM#145.6
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 05:01:52 PM »
The date is 1024 and not 1022! Ry. 9 is correct.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Jahangir Rupee, Dehli mint, AH1024/RY9, KM#145.6
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2009, 12:26:56 AM »
Thanks for the correction Oesho.  The reason I was willing to accept AH 1022 is that it seemed to pair with Ry 9.  Is the match of 1024 and 9 unusual?  Or is my information that the 9th year of Jahangir's reign is in the year AH 1022 which is wrong?
richie

Offline Oesho

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Re: Jahangir Rupee, Dehli mint, AH1024/RY9, KM#145.6
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2009, 11:45:32 AM »
The dating of the years of Jahangir is often a bit complicated. The dates are given according to the Hijri-calendar (Moon year) and the Ry. according to the Ilahi-calendar (Solar year).
The official date of accession and Julus starts from Nauroz, entrance of the moon into Aries, 11 Zi-l-qa’da 1014AH = 11-03-1606 (Julian Calendar, for present Gregorian calendar add 11 days).

AH1022 commences AD11-02-1613
AH1023 commences AD01-02-1614
AH1024 commences AD21-01-1615; Julus 9 starts 11-03-1614 till 10-03-1615
AH1025 commences AD10-01-1616

AH1024/Ry.9 covers the period 21-01-1615 till 10-03-1615. It’s clear from the above dates that there is no overlap for the date combination AH1022/Ry.9, but AH1023/Ry.9 would be another possibility, but the last digit on the coin is not a 3, but clearly a somewhat elegantly engraved 4.

Offline Overlord

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Re: Jahangir Rupee, Dehli mint, AH1024/RY9, KM#145.6
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2009, 12:49:48 PM »
Thanks again, Oesho. I find the contrasts in the quality of engraving on Jahangir's Rupees quite interesting.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 01:42:35 PM by Overlord »

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Jahangir Rupee, Dehli mint, AH1024/RY9, KM#145.6
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2009, 12:05:56 AM »
The dating of the years of Jahangir is often a bit complicated. The dates are given according to the Hijri-calendar (Moon year) and the Ry. according to the Ilahi-calendar (Solar year).

Yes, thanks Oesho.  With such a complicated dating, its no wonder I was confused.

I love looking at the coins of Jahangir. But what do you mean Overlord; contrast between sophisticated and simple or elegant and inelegant or decorative and non-decorative or dense and spacious?
richie

Offline Overlord

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Re: Jahangir Rupee, Dehli mint, AH1024/RY9, KM#145.6
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2009, 04:38:36 AM »
But what do you mean Overlord; contrast between sophisticated and simple or elegant and inelegant or decorative and non-decorative or dense and spacious?
richie
The comparison I make is relative. I find some of the coins (especially those produced at Agra) such breathtakingly beautiful specimens that some of the others seem quite crude (not only in terms of decoration but also calligraphy) to me. I sometimes find it hard to believe that the former were not machine-struck! Here are some examples

http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=26992
http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=32014
http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=32015
http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=28100

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Jahangir Rupee, Dehli mint, AH1024/RY9, KM#145.6
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2009, 05:13:39 AM »
WOW!  Great examples Overlord!
They are stunning!  In the last coin, the calligraphy seems to float above the perfect blend of geometry and ornamentation. 
Since I "know" the owner of three of the coins, I guess I should have sought permission. I was overly eager to post these. Sorry.  :-[
Gosh Oesho, you have some incredible coins!!!!!!
richie

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Jahangir Rupee, Dehli mint, AH1024/RY9, KM#145.6
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2009, 01:45:00 PM »
I can only speculate, but the events below did happen in European mints.

One extreme is a visit by a high nobleman. During the visit, the minting process will slow down, as you don't want the visitor to choke in fumes or being unheard because of the clanging noise. As workers can take more time and officials will want to look good, coins are produced to the best of their ability: well centered, with good, deep strikes on pre-heated flans. The visitor will of course look at at least one coin produced during the visit to express satisfaction. Such pieces would not necessarily have been struck from different dies, but they would look superb.

The other extreme is wartime. Soldiers must be paid, or they will plunder or - even worse - simple disappear. Any coin will do. Mints work at the highest possible speed. Heating dies is a waste of time, no time to check if the flan is in the right place, no quality control, any hammer blow will do.

Most of the time, it will be somewhere in between. In times of inflation or recoining, orders for coins will be bigger, in non-interesting times they will be smaller. Smaller mints and newly started up mints will have more time, big mints will receive the largest orders.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Jahangir Rupee, Dehli mint, AH1024/RY9, KM#145.6
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2009, 09:31:19 PM »
Great information Peter. During the 17th century, with respect to the cases of which you wrote, I should think that what happened in Europe could well have occured in India. 
richie