Author Topic: Shah Jahan. Rupee. Mint: Surat.RY 4, Month: Azar?  (Read 121 times)

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Offline asm

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Shah Jahan. Rupee. Mint: Surat.RY 4, Month: Azar?
« on: April 14, 2021, 07:40:25 AM »
An interesting coin. Shah Jahan. Surat. With Ilahi date RY 4, month off flan.

There are no mention in KM of any Ilahi dated rupee issued from Surat. So when I saw this in a recent auction, I was wondering, what it was. Very quietly, I picked up the coin - well apparently some one else had also noticed this - and then when I talked to a friend, he told me that these are known with 3 or 4 dates. Later I discussed this with Jan Lingen and he to mentioned that these are not listed but not unknown. He pointed me to a solitary coin listed on the Todywalla Auctions, may years back. A search on ZENO also showed no results.

These coins seem to be issued from dies meant for striking Gold Mohurs. As per Jan, Gold Mohurs of this type are recorded for Yr 2, Azar; Yr. 2 Isfanarmuz; Yr. 4 Khurdad; Yr 4 Azar; Yr. 5 Tir and Yr. 5 Mihr.

So this is probably Azar looking at the small space available to engrave the month.

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Shah Jahan. Rupee. Mint: Surat.RY 4, Month: Azar?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2021, 07:07:10 AM »
That raises the question of why the rupees weren't gilded and spent as mohurs. Different weight?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline asm

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Re: Shah Jahan. Rupee. Mint: Surat.RY 4, Month: Azar?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2021, 07:14:46 AM »
I am not an expert on gold coinage of the times but, to the best of my information, the gold coins were fractionally lighter - 10.8 to 11 g. while silver were 11 - 11.4 g.

But that gives me an idea - was some one trying to pull a fast one? just a light plaiting on the silver coins would have resulted in a gold mohur - which may not have past the muster of a shroff - but could well have been used as a presentation medallion. Or were these later strikes to be used as wedding presentations?

Not many Gold Mohurs may have been minted, leaving the dies in a good condition - enabling someone in the later generations to mint silvers..................

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Shah Jahan. Rupee. Mint: Surat.RY 4, Month: Azar?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2021, 10:10:52 AM »
It would take finding a gilded rupee to prove hanky-panky. Gilding is extremely difficult to remove chemically. The best you can hope for is that it wears off, but that is an uneven process.

I doubt that the gilding would happen in the mint, so you should also be thinking about a transfer mechanism: someone outside the mint comes in to buy rupees and gets a bag full of funny coins, ready for gilding, and it's not a coincidence.

The alternative theory is an innocent die switch. The dies were probably labelled, but labels wear also and the rupee die and mohur die are apparently quite similar. Outside the mint, either nobody noticed or (more likely) nobody realised the die switch, assisted by an amount of illiteracy.

Anyway, it's good to think about these things.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline asm

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Re: Shah Jahan. Rupee. Mint: Surat.RY 4, Month: Azar?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2021, 01:27:37 PM »
It would take finding a gilded rupee to prove hanky-panky. Gilding is extremely difficult to remove chemically. The best you can hope for is that it wears off, but that is an uneven process.

I doubt that the gilding would happen in the mint, so you should also be thinking about a transfer mechanism: someone outside the mint comes in to buy rupees and gets a bag full of funny coins, ready for gilding, and it's not a coincidence.

The alternative theory is an innocent die switch. The dies were probably labelled, but labels wear also and the rupee die and mohur die are apparently quite similar. Outside the mint, either nobody noticed or (more likely) nobody realised the die switch, assisted by an amount of illiteracy.

Anyway, it's good to think about these things.

Peter
The major reason to doubt is that no Surat Rupees are known issued with the Ilahi month other than these few extremely rare ones like this one.

Since Shailen Bhandare once told me that there was no concept of trial strikes in those days, I discount the possibility of a trial strike of a new die for Gold, struck on a Silver flan.

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline asm

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Re: Shah Jahan. Rupee. Mint: Surat.RY 4, Month: Azar?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2021, 05:22:30 PM »
On second thoughts, the gold plaiting may not have been a good idea..........the weight of a Mohur was 10.05 - 10.98 g and the rupee was 10.4 to 10.5 g. Add the weight of the Gold for the plaiting, it would well have been easy to call out.

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"