Tomar dynasty of delhi , Teja pala ?? , Jital , Unreported

[sarwar khan]

Ruler - Teja pala
Minted may be in Delhi
Denomination - Jital
Bull & Horseman type

If I am wrong pls correct me .

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[THCoins]

Very nice find ! It was previously reported, but it is very rare to see a specimen with both the characters before and in front of the horseman so nicely on flan.
I opened a discussion on the type previously here in the ancient and pre-sultanate India board. Because that's where all the posts about the Dehli Rajas are indexed, i will move this thread to the other board shortly.
After the initial report some more have been shown on Zeno.

Your specimen gives extra confirmation to the reading of the ruler as Teja Deva Pala. The name is known from the traditional lists of Dehli Tomara rulers, although the dating of these lists seems unreliable. As the other thread shows, Teja likely was the successor of Madana Pala. Madana Pala was known as ruler of Delhi  around 1150 AD, after Anangapala. Possibly it was Madana who lost Dehli to the Chauhans.
In the traditional genealogical lists there is no mention of Madana/Teja as a successive pair of rulers. The style of the coins, and the word "Madhava" in front of the bull makes it likely that the Tye#53 types are a derivative of the coins of the Delhi Madana of around 1150AD. However, it can not be fully ruled out that there was an earlier Raja with the same name.

While there are typical Dehli style jitals of Madana, none are known for Teja. That would make it less likely that these coins were minted in Dehli. One possibility would be the city of Hansi. Hansi, north-west of Dehli, with Asigarh fort also was an important city in the hands of the Tomaras. It was also conquered by the Chauhans, but we do not know whether this was before of after the fall of Dehli. It may be possible that Teja Deva Pala ruled Hansi, or another important Tomara town, for some time in the period that the Tomara dynasty collapsed.

In your overlay you have an upgoing stroke at the right end of the horizontal top line of "Ja". That actually is part of the next character "De". In contrast, at the left of the topline of the "Ta" character is a small downgoing stroke which you ommitted. That is the E-matra which makes Te from Ta, so should be marked as part of the character.

[sarwar khan]

Very nice find ! It was previously reported, but it is very rare to see a specimen with both the characters before and in front of the horseman so nicely on flan.
I opened a discussion on the type previously here in the ancient and pre-sultanate India board. Because that's where all the posts about the Dehli Rajas are indexed, i will move this thread to the other board shortly.
After the initial report some more have been shown on Zeno.

Your specimen gives extra confirmation to the reading of the ruler as Teja Deva Pala. The name is known from the traditional lists of Dehli Tomara rulers, although the dating of these lists seems unreliable. As the other thread shows, Teja likely was the successor of Madana Pala. Madana Pala was known as ruler of Delhi  around 1150 AD, after Anangapala. Possibly it was Madana who lost Dehli to the Chauhans.
In the traditional genealogical lists there is no mention of Madana/Teja as a successive pair of rulers. The style of the coins, and the word "Madhava" in front of the bull makes it likely that the Tye#53 types are a derivative of the coins of the Delhi Madana of around 1150AD. However, it can not be fully ruled out that there was an earlier Raja with the same name.

While there are typical Dehli style jitals of Madana, none are known for Teja. That would make it less likely that these coins were minted in Dehli. One possibility would be the city of Hansi. Hansi, north-west of Dehli, with Asigarh fort also was an important city in the hands of the Tomaras. It was also conquered by the Chauhans, but we do not know whether this was before of after the fall of Dehli. It may be possible that Teja Deva Pala ruled Hansi, or another important Tomara town, for some time in the period that the Tomara dynasty collapsed.

In your overlay you have an upgoing stroke at the right end of the horizontal top line of "Ja". That actually is part of the next character "De". In contrast, at the left of the topline of the "Ta" character is a small downgoing stroke which you ommitted. That is the E-matra which makes Te from Ta, so should be marked as part of the character.

Thanks THCoins Sir ,I think it's a minor Dynasty of tomara like gwalior. It's May be A rare coin  , I have little knowledge in Devanagari, that's why I made a mistake

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[THCoins]

The type usually is difficult to distinguish from the Tye#53 types in name of Madana Pala. It is rare in the well readable state you presented.
I think you do great work with the overlays. With my remarks i hope to improve the knowledge you display even further !

It is difficult to place this type and the very similar Tye#53 Madana type under one of the later minor Tomara dynasties. The dynasty of the Tomaras of Gwalior only was formed after the fall of Dehli to the forces of Muhammad bin Sam. The names of the rulers of the Tomara dynasty of Gwalior are known quite reliably. Madana and Teja are not among them.

[sarwar khan]

The type usually is difficult to distinguish from the Tye#53 types in name of Madana Pala. It is rare in the well readable state you presented.
I think you do great work with the overlays. With my remarks i hope to improve the knowledge you display even further !

It is difficult to place this type and the very similar Tye#53 Madana type under one of the later minor Tomara dynasties. The dynasty of the Tomaras of Gwalior only was formed after the fall of Dehli to the forces of Muhammad bin Sam. The names of the rulers of the Tomara dynasty of Gwalior are known quite reliably. Madana and Teja are not among them.

Shailen bhandare

Sir Say's that the legend is clearly "Teja" but the letters are distinctly Sharada script which was not in vogue in the Delhi region, so I think to connect this coin with the Tomara dynasty and Madanapala is a bit tenuous. Tomara coins of this series usually have Devanagari legends, not Sharada.


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[sarwar khan]

The type usually is difficult to distinguish from the Tye#53 types in name of Madana Pala. It is rare in the well readable state you presented.
I think you do great work with the overlays. With my remarks i hope to improve the knowledge you display even further !

It is difficult to place this type and the very similar Tye#53 Madana type under one of the later minor Tomara dynasties. The dynasty of the Tomaras of Gwalior only was formed after the fall of Dehli to the forces of Muhammad bin Sam. The names of the rulers of the Tomara dynasty of Gwalior are known quite reliably. Madana and Teja are not among them.

Thanks once again Anthony sir for clearing my Doubts !!

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[THCoins]

Tomara coins of this series usually have Devanagari legends, not Sharada

Agree, that's why an origin from a location north-west of Dehli would be most probable.
Note also that quite some crude Teja specimen are present in the Masson collection of the British Museum, which was collected from Kabul and Begram.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_IOLC-5797
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_IOLC-5551
Possibly this were later copies, but this again would favour an region of origin to the west of Dehli.

I do not know whether mr. Bhandare read the other thread, but the link between the Madana specimen and the Teja specimen is firm. In addition R. Tye confirmed that the two types are usually found mixed together. Whether this Madana is the same as the Dehli Madana needs further confirmation.

The first picture again shows the Madana type, with the beginning of "Madhava"in front of the bull as in the Dehli Madana specimen. Note that although crude, the major characteristics of the graphical design are the same as on your specimen.

The second a Teja Deva type with clear "De" after the "Ja".

[sarwar khan]

Agree, that's why an origin from a location north-west of Dehli would be most probable.
Note also that quite some crude Teja specimen are present in the Masson collection of the British Museum, which was collected from Kabul and Begram.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_IOLC-5797
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_IOLC-5551
Possibly this were later copies, but this again would favour an region of origin to the west of Dehli.

I do not know whether mr. Bhandare read the other thread, but the link between the Madana specimen and the Teja specimen is firm. In addition R. Tye confirmed that the two types are usually found mixed together. Whether this Madana is the same as the Dehli Madana needs further confirmation.

The first picture again shows the Madana type, with the beginning of "Madhava"in front of the bull as in the Dehli Madana specimen. Note that although crude, the major characteristics of the graphical design are the same as on your specimen.

The second a Teja Deva type with clear "De" after the "Ja".

THcoin Sir

shailen bhandare

Sir Say's that Hansi is not an area where Sharada script was current. This coin is issued from a northwestern mint. Style is similar to later issues from Nandana so it's may be a local minor dynasty which is situated in northwestern area 

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[THCoins]

The difficulty with these coins is that find information is very scarce. "Style is similar to later issues from Nandana" does not really convince me i am afraid. As for these later issues, Nandana is just proposed as mint location based on circumstantial evidence, but proof for this is very scarce.
Agree that Hansi is not as far west as one would expect based on the script. Hansi/Hirsar region is just the most westward area for which we know for certain this was governed by the Tomaras. Also there are indications that Delhi coinage types were imitated on a large scale in more western areas.

Here another Madana Pala, similar to Tye#53, worn, but less crude, and still in good silver.

[sarwar khan]

The difficulty with these coins is that find information is very scarce. "Style is similar to later issues from Nandana" does not really convince me i am afraid. As for these later issues, Nandana is just proposed as mint location based on circumstantial evidence, but proof for this is very scarce.
Agree that Hansi is not as far west as one would expect based on the script. Hansi/Hirsar region is just the most westward area for which we know for certain this was governed by the Tomaras. Also there are indications that Delhi coinage types were imitated on a large scale in more western areas.

THCoins sir it's mostly in tomaras coin script in Devnagari legend but in my coin script in Sharada which is not common in delhi or hansi areas

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[THCoins]

in tomaras coin script in Devnagari legend but in my coin script in Sharada which is not common in delhi or hansi areas

Yes, in known Tomara coins script is Devanagari, but that does not prove that coins with more Sharada characteristics can have no link with Delhi.
Both Sharada and Devnagari derive from northwestern Brahmi. Especially in the border regions between the areas in which both scripts evolved, variability and hybrids may be expected. Hansi/Hisar to the west of Dehli may not have been the actual minting place, but this was not that far from the Punjab. The same holds true for Thanesar, also under Tomara control, but more to the north.

I can not be certain about the link of the Madana/Teja types to Dehli. but at the moment i have no better hypothesis. I would gladly exchange this for a better one if you could provide me with additional proof of the existence of a shortlived contemporary Hindu dynasty minting coins somewhere in the Punjab or the saltrange region.

As an example of a possible hybrid, a coin in the name of "Sri Samasadina" likely referring to Iltutmish of Dehli, but with a rather more Sharada textstyle.

[sarwar khan]

Yes, in known Tomara coins script is Devanagari, but that does not prove that coins with more Sharada characteristics can have no link with Delhi.
Both Sharada and Devnagari derive from northwestern Brahmi. Especially in the border regions between the areas in which both scripts evolved, variability and hybrids may be expected. Hansi/Hisar to the west of Dehli may not have been the actual minting place, but this was not that far from the Punjab. The same holds true for Thanesar, also under Tomara control, but more to the north.

I can not be certain about the link of the Madana/Teja types to Dehli. but at the moment i have no better hypothesis. I would gladly exchange this for a better one if you could provide me with additional proof of the existence of a shortlived contemporary Hindu dynasty minting coins somewhere in the Punjab or the saltrange region.

As an example of a possible hybrid, a coin in the name of "Sri Samasadina" likely referring to Iltutmish of Dehli, but with a rather more Sharada textstyle.

THcoins Sir

John Deyell Sir says that This type is closely linked with one particular imitative pseudo-Madana, with the same features on both bull and horseman. The execution of the bull is careful, with a nicely-rendered trisula on the bull's rump and a series of lines and circles defining the horseman. Madana's reign was about 1145-67, so these coins would have been issued in the second half of the 12th century.

The visible letters are definitely Sarada script. The letter to the left of the horseman could be 'ha', 'bha' or 'ta', with the latter most likely in the context. As pointed out, an 'e' matra is possible, hence 'te'. The letters to the right on posted specimens seem could certainly be 'ja' and 'de'. So Anthony's proposed reading of 'Tejadeva' is supportable.

There are absolutely no bull-and-horseman jitals of the Delhi series using Sarada script. Sarada was numismatically associated with the Hindu Shahis (9th-10th centuries), Kashmir rajas (9th-14th centuries) and Kangra rajas (12th-15th centuries?). It was also used on the bilingual dirhams of Mahmud of Ghazni issued at Lahore (Mahmudpur) in 1027-8.


As to minting place, the later Ghaznavids of Lahore controlled the Punjab up to the Ghurid conquest in 1186. They issued bull-type copper coins quite dissimilar to this coin. However, there were a number of tributary rajas in the Punjab hill country, up to and including Jammu, who could have issued their own base-metal coinage. Initially imitating Madanapala Delhiwals, and later placing their own name on the coin. Until better historical information is available, the identification remains tentative.

Than Shailen Sir also say's that John Deyell  Thanks for your comments. On a closer look, I think the first letter is "Bho", not "Te". There are two mātrās on its top (earlier I mistook them to be a part of the horseman's spear). So I'd venture a suggestion that the name of the concerned person could be "Bhoja" and not "Teja".




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[THCoins]

Great to have the opinions of both J. Dyell and S. Bhandare on this !

The imitative pseudo Madana is what i showed as Tye#53 example.
Based on the multiple specimen i saw, i would favor "Té" over "Bho" as the character left of the horseman.
I know mr. Dyell favors a single mint hypothesis for the Dehli bull and horseman series. I disagree with that, and think that there were likely multiple mints, including some in the western territories (Whether these were official or not is again another matter).

How these types are finally explained, may take some time, but it is good these are looked at from different perspectives.
Sarwar Khan, thank you for this discussion !

[Palomares]

Excellent thread and wonderful coin sarwar Khan
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that this coin has a less thick blanket than the other pieces that I have seen.
I would opt more for the aksara 'Bho' instead of 'Te'.

Palomares

[THCoins]

Thanks for you added opinion Palomares !
Changing a reading from Teja from Bhoja would ofcourse offer new directions for research.
I am not certain yet. The crossing of the vertical stem of the character with the left upper part of the curved loop could be an argument in favor of bha. This proof would have been stronger if there also was a clear oblique line connecting the bottom of the vertical stem and the left part of the curve.
My problem with bha is that the bottom end of the curve in bha usually does not curve this much to the left and extends this far upwards. It makes it almost look like an  "U". Hence my reservations. As often, new specimen might resolve remaining doubts.

As for the place of origin of these coins, i agree that epigraphic style favors somewhere in the Northern Punjab. Hansi was a western Tomara stronghold for which historic evidence is most clear. Traditional history does give even more North-Western options. A Tomara ruler "Jhetpal", brother of Anangapala Tomara, is claimed to have recaptured Nagarkot (Kangra) and taken Pathankot from Ghaznavid troops during the reign of Ibrahim. Based in Pathankot he is considered the founder of what later became the Nurpur kingdom. However, there is no Bhoja or Teja mentioned in the traditional list of Pathania rulers.