Author Topic: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area  (Read 1934 times)

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Offline Deeman

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2021, 10:42:40 AM »
I was right then?  And I’d not even seen the Royal Mint’s definition.

I am not buying that. It would be a wide rim if it didn't have incuse lettering.

Offline <k>

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2021, 12:52:33 PM »
I am not buying that. It would be a wide rim if it didn't have incuse lettering.

Give a coin a wide rim. Then put some incuse lettering on it, and the rim disappears! Houdini magic? It's not April fools day yet, you know, Mr Deeman.  ::)
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Offline Deeman

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2021, 01:06:31 PM »
Don't be silly <k>. Lettering is part of the stamping process. Search the internet for the definition of a rim. It will be educational!

Offline <k>

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2021, 01:13:04 PM »
See: Rim (coin).

The UK 20 pence coin has a wide rim. The incuse lettering does not make it disappear. You cannot find a web page that states that it does. You need to bring your thinking up to 1982. :P
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Offline <k>

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2021, 11:52:12 AM »
After decimalisation, the UK occasionally issued a commemorative crown for royal occasions. These crowns were never intended for circulation. They had an implicit denomination of 25 pence, but no denomination was shown, as was traditional for crowns.

The last and final 25 pence commemorative was issued in 1981, for the wedding of Charles and Diana. The following year a new circulation 20 pence coin was issued. Was it actually planned that 20 pence and 25 pence coins should never co-exist in any form? Or was that just coincidence?

Tristan da Cunha uses UK coinage only, but it has issued many collector coins. In 2008 it issued a set of coins in different denominations. This set was presumably meant to mimic a circulation set, but it certainly never circulated. Curiously, it included both a 20 pence and 25 pence collector coin, and also a collector coin named a crown. What was the supposed face value of that 'crown' ? I do not know.

In any case, the pieces of this 2008 set were all round and did not match the specifications of the UK circulation coinage. There was even a 'half penny' included, when that coin and denomination had been defunct in the UK after 1984.



½p.  17 mm. Copper.

1p.  19 mm.  Copper.

2p.  22 mm.  Copper.

5p.  16.9 mm. Copper-nickel.

10p. 22 mm.   Copper-nickel.

20p.  22 mm.  Aluminium-bronze.

25p.  26 mm.  Bimetallic: aluminium-bronze center in copper-nickel ring.

Crown.  38 mm.  Copper-nickel.
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Online Alan71

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2021, 06:43:04 PM »
I am not buying that. It would be a wide rim if it didn't have incuse lettering.
I disagree.  If it wasn’t incuse lettering, it would have raised the rim higher and made stacking harder.  The rim is what allows them to stack properly and should always be the highest and thickest part of the coin.  I think even that 1996 football £2 had a bowl effect, allowing the edge to be slightly higher than the rest.

We will have to agree to disagree!

Offline Deeman

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2021, 07:26:24 PM »
We will have to agree to disagree!

Agreed!

Offline <k>

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2021, 04:41:09 PM »
The UK, the crown dependencies of the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey (and Guernsey's autonomous dependency of Alderney), and the British overseas territories have usually always featured a portrait of the monarch of the obverse of their coins.

For a long time, Guernsey was an exception to this rule, featuring its emblem instead:




Though the island did feature the Queen on its famous 10 shillings coin of 1966.




However, from 1985 onward Guernsey did replace the emblem with a portrait of the Queen. This was done expressly in order to make it coins more attractive to coin collectors.

See: Guernsey coins with and without a portrait of the monarch.



The only other exception to the rule that British-oriented coins should portray the monarch is Gibraltar.



Here I quote a post from our forum member eurocoin:

Many questions were recently asked in the Parliament of Gibraltar about the absence of Queen Elizabeth II's portrait on the obverse of some of their collectors coins. The replies to them offered an interesting insight into why it wasn't used. Apparently there are 2 kinds of situations in which the portrait is not being used.

Firstly coins that carry the Queen's portrait need to have a relevant connection to the government that issues them. So coins like the ones commemorating the Rolling Stones have no connection to Gibraltar and therefore may not depict her portrait. If something is not likely to receive approval by the Queen then it is not put to the Queen. So it is not that they say to Her Majesty, ‘Do you approve this?’ and if she says no, then they say ‘Okay, well then we will do it without your effigy and do a crest instead.’ This connection requirement only exists for the British Overseas Territories. It does not exist for countries of the Commonwealth. The connection requirement has been established in agreement with Her Majesty the Queen. She only wants her portrait on coins of the British Overseas Territory that have an actual connection to the particular territory.

Secondly approval of Her Majesty the Queen takes 4-5 months. If mints want to release a Gibraltar coin with her portrait on it they need approval from the Gibraltar National Mint, the Minister for Economic Development etc., the Chief Minister of Gibraltar, the Governor of Gibraltar, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and Her Majesty the Queen, in this order.

If the portrait of Queen Elizabeth II is not being used, approval for the release of the coin is only necessary of the Gibraltar National Mint, the Minister for Economic Development etc. and the Chief Minister of Gibraltar.

Gibraltar for example issued coins for the passing of Dame Vera Lynn. If the entire process would have taken 4-5 months demand for such coin would have been much lower by then. So they want to release it quickly and therefore do not use Queen Elizabeth II's portrait. In their words: "The coin market is highly competitive and the ones who comes up with a theme first gets the lion’s share of the market and the people who arrive late have a problem in selling their coins".




Maybe eurocoin or another member could remind us how many modern coin types in total Gibraltar has issued that do not feature the Queen.
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Offline Deeman

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2021, 06:25:45 PM »
The first coin issued by Gibraltar that did not bear the Queen's effigy was a 2017 £1 1oz silver collector coin. Mintage was 50,000.
The coin was produced in co-operation with the coin company Vera Valor and each coin has a unique serial number.
Obverse depicts the weight unit of 1 oz in different languages. Reverse features a Barbary macaque on a rock.

Offline <k>

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2021, 06:27:30 PM »
2017. So it's not so long ago.
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Offline eurocoin

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #55 on: April 07, 2021, 06:56:19 PM »
So far 38 coins have been authorized by the Government of Gibraltar that do not depict the Queen's portrait. That the coins have been authorized does not necessarily mean that they have already been issued at this moment, or will ever be issued at all. Most of them of course will be released at some point.

Only non-circulating commemorative coins, collectors coins and bullion coins of Gibraltar have so far been authorized on which Her Majesty the Queen's portrait is not depicted. First the exception was only used for bullion coins of Vera Valor. Later they also started to issue collectors coins and non-circulating commemorative coins without a portrait of the Queen. On the coins that do not depict Her Majesty's portrait, the obverse either depicts the coat of arms of Gibraltar, the coat of arms of the Government of Gibraltar or just a thematic coin design.

Below a list can be found of all coins of Gibraltar that have so far been authorized that do not depict a portrait of Her Majesty the Queen. The date mentioned is the year in which the issuance of the particular coin was authorized, which is not necessarily the date on the coin itself.

25 pounds - Gold Vera Valor 1/4 Ounce 2017
1 pound - One Ounce Vera Silver 2018
2 pounds - Gold Vera Valor 1 gram 2019
10 pounds - Vera Valor Gibraltar 1/10th Ounce 2020 (2 coins)
Various - Rolling Stones Collection, 50th anniversary of the iconic lick 2020
Various - WWII 80th anniversary of the outbreak, the voice of a nation 2020 (5 coins)*
Various - WWII 80th anniversary of the outbreak, the voice of a nation portrait 2020
50 pence - COVID 19 collection, we unite as one 2020
10 pounds - Vera Max 1/10th Ounce 2020 (4 coins)
1 pound - 75 Years of Peace 2020
Various - 80th Anniversary of the Commandos 2020 (2 coins)
10 pounds - 750th Anniversary of Marco Polo's Journey 2020 (5 coins)
20 pence - Titan Dome 2020
Various - VJ Day Collection 2020 (2 coins)
Various - Remembrance, Tomb of the Unknown Soldier 2021 (2 coins)
Various - VE Day Chronicle Coin Collection, The Headlines 2021 (6 coins)
20 pence -  Lucky Kitten 2021
2 pounds - WBC Whyte V Povetkin 2021

*This authorization was later amended. The part about the coat of arms of Gibraltar being used on the obverse of the coins was erased and replaced by a sentence stating that the Queen's portrait would be depicted on the obverse of the coins. The coins were issued depicting the Queen's portrait on their obverse.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 01:40:50 PM by eurocoin »

Offline <k>

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #56 on: April 07, 2021, 07:01:20 PM »
38! That's far more than I imagined.
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Offline <k>

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2021, 10:24:01 PM »


Jersey, 1 pound collector coin, 1981.  Diameter: 30 mm.





Guernsey, 10 shillings collector coin, 1966.  Diameter: 25.5 mm.



Are Jersey and Guernsey the only parts of the sterling area that have issued square (or squarish) collector coins?

Square coins would never be issued as regular circulation coins, because they do not 'roll' and therefore vending machines cannot accept them.

Does anybody know, however, if either of these coins were authorised for circulation?
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Offline <k>

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #58 on: April 08, 2021, 10:27:05 PM »


Guernsey, 3 pence, 1956.



Is Guernsey the only part of the sterling area ever to have issued a scalloped coin?
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Offline <k>

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Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2021, 12:07:52 PM »
We have seen how Tristan da Cunha sometimes abbreviates its name to TDC on its coins and also how the Isle of Man briefly gave its name in Manx: ellan vannin.





Jersey, meanwhile, did not use the title 'Bailiwick of Jersey' on its coins before 1957.





From 1949 to 1952, it was 'Island of Jersey'.





Up to 1947, it was 'States of Jersey'. Where was the consistency?





Guernsey used to be spelt 'Guernesey' on its coins. Maybe the Grauniad (Guardian!) newspaper minted coins in those days?  :D





From 1956 the modern spelling appeared on the reverse. The title in Norman French appeared on the obverse.





Later the modern name was removed from the reverse, and only the Norman French remained.





Since 1985, the title has been 'Bailiwick of Guernsey'. A bailiwick falls under the jurisdiction of a bailiff.



See: Name variations on the coinage of the Crown Dependencies.
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