Author Topic: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area  (Read 1864 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline <k>

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23 377
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2021, 10:33:31 PM »


We have discussed how Guernsey places a shield next to the Queen's portrait on most circulation coins.





The Isle of Man has at times included small triskelions on the obverse of its coins.

In which years did it do that? And have any other entities, apart from Guernsey and IOM, featured such symbols on the obverse?
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Offline SandyGuyUK

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2021, 09:50:50 AM »
I think the Isle of Man started with the whole triskeles on the obverse from the introduction of the Maklouf portrait back in 1985.  (Interestingly, the Pobjoy version of the Maklouf portrait doesn't look anything like the other mints' versions of it).

After that, apart from the brief intermission in 1998 when some coins were issued with the Rank-Broadley portrait without the triskeles, they then persisted until the introduction of the Tower Mint circulation set in 2017.

I'm not aware of any other such use of additional devices to the Queen's head apart from Guernsey and the IoM - I'm sure there could be something somewhere though! :)
Ian
UK

Offline <k>

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23 377
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2021, 10:36:40 AM »
Thanks, SandyGuyUK. I wasn't aware that Pobjoy's Maklouf portrait was so different. Could you elaborate on the differences and which locality's portraits to compare?
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Offline SandyGuyUK

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2021, 11:06:16 AM »
Hopefully I've managed to attach two images for comparison.

As you can see, the Pobjoy version (courtesy of Bullionbypost.com) is quite "craggy" looking compared with the Royal Mint version (courtesy of RoyalMint.com).

Interestingly, when Pobjoy issued coins for Gibraltar, they managed to use a much closer copy of the Royal Mint version.
Ian
UK

Offline <k>

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23 377
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2021, 11:23:56 AM »
Craggy! Interesting word. Here I show your images side by side, so we can see the differences.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Offline <k>

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23 377
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2021, 02:13:20 PM »
Gibraltar issued a commemorative 50 pence coin for the Penny Black stamp in 2020.

Interestingly, the coin had on the obverse a wide rim of the sort that is normally only seen on 20 pence coins. Not only that, but the Queen's portrait protruded into the rim, giving this coin a unique format in the sterling area and indeed elsewhere.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Offline SandyGuyUK

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2021, 03:06:55 PM »
Interestingly, the coin had on the obverse a wide rim of the sort that is normally only seen on 20 pence coins. Not only that, but the Queen's portrait protruded into the rim, giving this coin a unique format in the sterling area and indeed elsewhere.

Don't forget that Pobjoy Mint went through a phase of issuing crown coins in this format - initially for the Isle of Man in 1987 (if I recall correctly).

The effect of this type of design was presumably supposed to be reminiscent of the Cartwheel penny and two-pence coins of George III?
Ian
UK

Offline <k>

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23 377
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2021, 03:41:09 PM »
Yes, I remember that format. So maybe there is nothing new in the universe.

Below you see a cartwheel penny for comparison. It has a wide rim, but Deeman will deny it even has a rim.  :D
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Offline SandyGuyUK

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #68 on: April 13, 2021, 03:56:50 PM »
Interestingly, when Pobjoy issued coins for Gibraltar, they managed to use a much closer copy of the Royal Mint version.

Courtesy of the NGC.com website, here's an example of the Maklouf portrait from the Pobjoy Mint for Gibraltar coins (in this case, a 10 pence coin).

I'm not quite sure why they managed to get the portrait very close/identical to the Royal Mint original on these coins but failed so dismally on the Manx ones?

Ian
UK

Offline <k>

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23 377
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #69 on: April 13, 2021, 03:59:46 PM »


The earlier images again, for comparison.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Offline africancoins

  • Meritorious Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 938
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2021, 10:04:57 PM »
Some other things about the two “versions” of the RDM portrait as used by the Royal Mint and Pobjoy Mint.

See the portrait on such as this UK 50 Pence…

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces4409.html

and the slightly different one on such as this Gold sovereign…

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces14393.html

Then consider the two portrait versions of this UK 20 Pence circulation type (or for a closer look at those two perhaps look at pieces you might have)…

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1376.html

Then for the Isle of Man… A different version portrait on each of one of the pair of versions of the 2 Pounds 1997 coins.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces238115.html

…and…

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces40230.html

…………

On all of the above, the area where there is perhaps the most obvious difference, is around the lowest point on the portrait.

It seems uncertain as to if there are only two versions of this portrait… there are perhaps a few “in-betweens”.

The look of the Gold coin from the Isle of Man in reply number 63 could be because it is perhaps being a one-tenth ounce 22 carat Gold coin – quite a small coin. (From the image, I cannot tell what size of Gold coin it actually is.)

Thanks Mr Paul Baker

Offline Alan71

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1 177
  • Derby, UK
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #71 on: April 14, 2021, 12:13:55 AM »
I think the more “rounded neck” version appeared from 1992 onwards. 

Offline <k>

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23 377
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2021, 09:35:22 AM »
Which version do you consider to have the more rounded neck. Can you see it in this thread?
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

Offline Alan71

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1 177
  • Derby, UK
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2021, 10:04:51 AM »
Which version do you consider to have the more rounded neck. Can you see it in this thread?
St Helena + Ascension 20p from 2003 has the rounded neck.  All Guernsey circulation coins 1985-1997 used the original pointy neck version.  The Isle of Man variant always used the rounded neck, but we’ve established that’s a slightly different design anyway. 

I googled the 1991 and 1992 UK 20p last night, and 1992 appears to be when the alteration happened.  It allowed the portrait to become slightly bigger on the 20p, but I’m pretty sure all the denominations adopted the rounded style that year.

Paul Baker (africancoins) provided a good link in his post: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1376.html

Offline <k>

  • Moderator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23 377
Re: Comparing coins from the whole British sterling area
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2021, 10:10:11 AM »
Thanks, Alan71.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.