Author Topic: Coin or Token die?  (Read 250 times)

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Offline Desibot

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Coin or Token die?
« on: January 17, 2021, 04:39:26 PM »
Hi guys help required on this please
From what I think this is a Islamic mosque token die?
But can't find a match to it

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Coin or Token die?
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2021, 05:09:43 PM »
I struck a piece of silver with your die. Please add the diameter to facilitate identification.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Desibot

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Re: Coin or Token die?
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2021, 05:27:51 PM »
Thanks for the quick response figleaf
 

This is note mine so cant provide any dimension of it for now

The image of the token has the same crack as the die I'm sure you noticed  :bow:


Offline Desibot

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Re: Coin or Token die?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2021, 05:38:31 PM »
Lol  :) just noticed you mirrored the image of the die

 :thumbsup:

Offline THCoins

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Re: Coin or Token die?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2021, 05:48:17 PM »
Looks indeed like an islamic temple token. This particularly because of the degenerated arab characters in the center legend.

Offline aws22

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Re: Coin or Token die?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2021, 06:52:45 PM »
Dear Desibot, it is a die for an Islamic coin which reads:
Field:
Inside a square is Kalima " لا اله الا الله \ محمد \ رسول الله  , La Ilah Illa Allah / Muhammad / Rasul Allah ".
Margin:
Outside the four sides of the square, the names of the Rashidun Caliphs (Rightly Guided Caliphs); are referred to as Rashidun (rightly guided) Caliphs:
Top: ابو بكر Abu Bakr, 
Right: عمر  Umar,
Left:  عثمان  Uthman, and
Bottom: على Ali

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Coin or Token die?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2021, 07:18:17 PM »
Glad you appreciate my quality fake, Desibot. That die crack is probably why the die was discarded. A few more pieces may have broken it in two.

Can't you ask the seller for the diameter of the business part of the die? It may give an indication of what it was used for.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Desibot

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Re: Coin or Token die?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2021, 10:43:13 PM »
Hi

Thankyou maythem  :perfect:

Figleaf As soon as I get diameters of it I will update on here.
I was initially looking for any types of coin die for my collection but I guess will have to very lucky to get hold of one prices are extremely high
And rare to see any on the market so next best thing prob token die
Or counterfeit  ::)



Offline Desibot

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Re: Coin or Token die?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2021, 03:44:58 PM »
Update

Size is 25mm


Offline Figleaf

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Re: Coin or Token die?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2021, 04:06:48 PM »
Good picture, desibot. The crack was already through and through. I thought it reached to the centre only.

With 25 mm and taking into account that flans were usually smaller than dies, I think THCoins has a point thinking that it is not a die for a coin. However, the salamander(?) at 6 o'clock pleads against the idea. I saw pictures of non-existing animals on madrassas in Uzbekistan. They were explained as "the ban on iconography covers only people and existing animals". Would a mosque concur? If so, perhaps this die was used for for making souvenirs of a visit to a famous mosque? That doesn't make it less appealing, but it does make it even more difficult to identify.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Manzikert

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Re: Coin or Token die?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2021, 10:26:17 PM »
Unfortunately Peter, as Maythem has pointed out, your 'salamander' is the name of Ali, confusingly upside down of course.

I think the die is probably for the reverse of one of the standard Muslim 'ramatankas', with the mosque on the front, though it is not the common type. My three of these are 28-29 mm in diameter, but the die is only 25 mm, and the central square on the normal type is formed of four crescent-like elements rather than the neat square on the die.

These I believe have the name of Mecca or Medina below the mosque, and I have seen them described as a souvenir of the hajj, which would definitely fit your 'souvenir of a visit to a famous mosque'.

Alan

Offline aws22

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Re: Coin or Token die?
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2021, 04:17:26 AM »
Dear Alan, the following tokens have the word " Ali على " on the right side.
In the left photo the word " Ali على " is correct while the right photo, the word " Ali على " is written backwards.

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline Manzikert

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Re: Coin or Token die?
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2021, 08:33:42 AM »
Yes, but on the die above you stated that Ali is at the bottom, and the point I was making is that it is a word, not a 'salamander' as Peter suggested.

I know that the standard type (as illustrated by you) is different, and therefore didn't bother showing it. All I am suggesting is that the die is for a similar token, rather than for a coin.

Alan