Author Topic: Mamluks, Al-Ashraf Sayf al-Din Barsbay, AR-Dirham, Aleppo (Halab) mint  (Read 365 times)

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Offline maudry

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I was wondering if it could be Safavid?
Size: 16mm
Weight: 2.14gr
« Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 11:20:53 PM by maudry »

Online aws22

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Re: Small islamic silver coin
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2020, 04:20:59 AM »
Dear maudry, I think your coin is:
Safavids, Shah Tahmasp I, AR 1/2 Shahi, Sari mint (AH 930-984/1524-1576 AD)
Obverse (Second photo):
Shiite Kalima: لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله علی ولی الله , La ilah illa Allah / Muhammad rasul Allah ‘Ali wali Allah, meaning, “no god but God, Muhammad is the messenger of God, ‘Ali is the chosen one of God”
Reverse (First photo): 
Mint inside a center circle, ضرب سارى Struck in Sari, his title around in margin.
Rare mint Sari (main city of Mazandaran), beautiful calligraphy.

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline maudry

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Re: Safavids, Shah Tahmasp I, AR 1/2 Shahi, Sari mint
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2020, 10:26:11 PM »
Thank you Maythem.

Marc

Offline saro

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Re: Safavids, Shah Tahmasp I, AR 1/2 Shahi, Sari mint
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2020, 04:39:14 PM »
A beautiful and with no doubt a rare coin  :applause: but I am not so certain that's a Safavid coin... :-\
The kalima (with a separating ornament) doesn't appear to be the shiite formula ? even off-centered I think that there is no room for " ‘Ali wali Allah ".
instead, at bottom I would read (curiously..) "zarb ضرب " and on the other face, in center : " ب ساري " which is also somewhat weird; "zarb b Sari" could be more of turkish style?

The visible part of the circular legend (with something like " ... بهی الملک ال ..." is also puzzling and  hardly linkable with a ruler's title.
A suggestion (and no more..) :  Aq Quyunlu or a late Qara Quyunlu  struck at Sari???
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Online aws22

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Re: Safavids, Shah Tahmasp I, AR 1/2 Shahi, Sari mint
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2020, 05:03:31 PM »
Thank you Saro, I was in doubt about this coin. I tried hard to find one like it, but could not, so I went by the style and assumed it is Safavid coin. But I agree with you now it is not Safavid coin. I am glad you agreed on the Mint Sari, it is clear " ضرب سارى ".

Maythem
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline saro

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Re: Safavids, Shah Tahmasp I, AR 1/2 Shahi, Sari mint
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2020, 11:01:57 AM »
I think that the mystery is off...
I was not completely satisfied with the reading of the central text as being "Sari"... and indeed, not sure it was a mintname  :-\  which should have been better expected after "zarb" on the other face.

In fact it's the ruler's name : "Barsbay / برسبای ", a Mamluk ruler (825-841 AH) / a coin (from type) which has been struck at Halab (Alep).
Some coins are listed on Zeno (1/2 and 1 dirham) , see here and here

Mamluks, Barsbay (825-841 AH) / dirham of Halab mint
« Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 01:47:28 PM by saro »
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Safavids, Shah Tahmasp I, AR 1/2 Shahi, Sari mint
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2020, 11:12:55 AM »
 :applause: :coinsilver: :applause:
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline saro

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Re: Safavids, Shah Tahmasp I, AR 1/2 Shahi, Sari mint
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2020, 02:27:52 PM »
This sketch gives the circular legend present on this coin : "... al-mulk al-ashraf...  الملک الاسرف " (full title : al-ashraf Sayf al-din Barsbay)

The strange word I took for "bhi / بهی " was in fact an ornament  ::)... clearly seen on one of the Zeno coin

On the other face "zarb" is at bottom and the mintname is at top but is out of flan here.
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Online aws22

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Re: Safavids, Shah Tahmasp I, AR 1/2 Shahi, Sari mint
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2020, 05:44:17 PM »
Dear Saro, you have done a wonderful job on this coin, the details of this coin:
Mamluks, Al-Ashraf Sayf al-Din Barsbay, ¾ Dirham, no Date, Dimashq (Damascus) mint (AH 825–841/1422–1438 AD)
First photo:
Clockwise marginal legend: السلطان الملك الاشرف ابو النصر عز نصره ,  “al-Sultan al-Malik al-Asharf abu al-Nasr azza nasrahu” , meaning, “al-Sultan al-Malik al-Asharf abu al-Nasr, may his victory be glorious”
Inner circle, central legend: " برسباى "   , Barsbay (Ruler’s name)
Second photo:
بدمشق  , Bi-Dimashq , in Damascus (On top, not visible)
لا اله الا الله , La Ilah illa Allah
(figure) , see attachment.
محمد رسول الله  , Muhammad Rasul Allah
ضرب , Zarb.
Barsbay struck silver coins, with the following denominations: 1/2 + 1/4 = 3/4 Dirham, of 1.45 + 0.725 gram = 2.175 gram.

Maythem
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 03:41:08 AM by aws22 »
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline saro

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Re: Safavids, Shah Tahmasp I, AR 1/2 Shahi, Sari mint
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2020, 06:27:38 PM »
Thank you Maythem   :)
The mintname is out of flan at top and I wonder why you think that this coin is from Dimashq / Damascus mint  and not from Halab ? the ornament placed under the kalima seems to be found only  on the Halab coins listed on Zeno.
I'm not expert in Mamluks coinage but I notice that Halab silver coins of Barsbay listed are :1/2 dirham of circa 1,1g and (scarcer) dirham of 2,1 -2,3 g (like Maudry's coin ?); may be there was a weight std slightly different for these two mints ?
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Online aws22

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Re: Safavids, Shah Tahmasp I, AR 1/2 Shahi, Sari mint
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2020, 07:27:56 PM »
Thank you Saro, you are right about the “ Figure ” is used in Aleppo mint. It is Aleppo mint and it should be written as two words next to each other “ ضرب بحلب Dhuriba bi-Halab “ plus another type of heraldic symbol “ Figure 2 “ included on the other side of the coin which is there in the margin of first photo above letter " N ن " of the word " al-Sultan السلطان ".
As for the weight standard, you could be right.
The coin is then:
Mamluks, Al-Ashraf Sayf al-Din Barsbay, AR Dirham, no Date, Aleppo (Halab) mint (AH 825–841/1422–1438 AD)
First photo:
Clockwise marginal legend:
السلطان al-Sultan,
(Figure 2) , see attachment.
الملك الاشرف أبو النصر عز نصره , al-Malik al-Asharf abu al-Nasr azza nasrahu.
“al-Sultan al-Malik al-Asharf abu al-Nasr azza nasrahu” , meaning, “al-Sultan al-Malik al-Asharf abu al-Nasr, may his victory be glorious”
Inner circle, central legend: " برسباى "   , Barsbay (Ruler’s name)
Second photo:
لا اله الا الله , La Ilah illa Allah
(Figure) , see attachment.
محمد رسول الله , Muhammad Rasul Allah
ضرب بحلب, Dhuriba bi-Halab (Aleppo).

Maythem
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 03:40:46 AM by aws22 »
Coin collecting has a curious name. It is also called the "Hobby of Kings".

Offline saro

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Re: Safavids, Shah Tahmasp I, AR 1/2 Shahi, Sari mint
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2020, 09:04:56 PM »
From another coin, it is now possible to complete the  legible legend present on Maudry's coin with the word "sultan" to give :  "al-Sultan al-Malik al-Asharf:)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline maudry

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Re: Mamluks, Al-Ashraf Sayf al-Din Barsbay, AR-Dirham, Aleppo (Halab) mint
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2020, 11:22:54 PM »
Thank you gentlemen a lot for another full and clear identification of one of my coins.
I have modified the title of this thread and will also need to modify the label on the coin  :)