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Arab-Sasanian elephant pashiz

Started by Pellinore, July 01, 2020, 11:35:06 PM

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Pellinore

I was happy to acquire on the last Stephen Album auction this thin and tiny copper coin of the Arab-Sasanian persuasion. It has a clear mint name: Istakhr. That's in Persis, a stone throw from old Persepolis, in the south-west belly of Iran.

Local coins like these date from the early 8th century, after Islam conquered Persia, but before strictness stepped in and the all-islamic new fulus and dirhams were introduced. There's no mention of elephants in the book of Gyselen about Arab-Sasanian coinage (2009), and it doesn't figure in Album's Checklist of Islamic Coins, third edition (2011). I couldn't find it on Zeno, but it has a provisionary Album number, A-46F. Clearly a number of these have been found. Maybe it was published somewhere, but where?

A good many number of animals and fable animals were used on Arab-Sasanian coins and their contemporaries, but no elephants that I know of. They are part of Indian coinage, and were there ever Indian soldiers or Indian rulers in Istakhr?

I couldn't make a good picture myself, so I hammered away at the Album photo to make it clear and fit for World of Coins. I hope some of you can say something about this.

Arab-Sasanian AE pashiz, 700-720 AD (0.40g). Obv. King on an elephant, half-circular text above. Rev. Standard Sasanian fire altar with bystanders, to the right mint formula ST (Istakhr). 12 x 13 mm, 0.41 gr. Not in Gyselen. Not in Album, but apparently a provisory Album number A-F46.

-- Paul

THCoins

Took me some time to see the elephant. But once you see it it is as clear as day. Also the Sasanian heritage is clearly demonstrated through the fire altar.
I know that the employment of elephants in the army was common in the Afgan region. Some searching suggests this to be the same for the more western regions. Although the Syrian elephant was extinct already at this time, their Indian cousins were exported far west. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_war_elephants
The style reminds me a bit of both the late Kushan Huvishka types and als the later somewhat degenerate Ghorid and Khwarezm types from Afghanistan . One of the last category as illustration:

Tiesenhausen

Hello, this seems to be Gyselen 105, which will be found in the new edition of her catalog (throw the old one away, sorry).

One doesn't need elephants in Istakhr to have one on a coin from there.

Best regards, Michael Bates

THCoins

Thanks for that additional info. It is also good to hear that there is an update pending of the classical work on the subject !

Anthony

Tiesenhausen

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The new edition is already published, several years ago. It has the complete unchanged first addition with 128 new types added in an appendix at the end, with revised indices and additional plates. It was published in 2009. Your type is in the annex as type 106. The annex also includes new examples of the first 100 types

Because the new edition includes the old edition unchanged, you can't just buy the annex separately, So if you buy the new edition, you might as well throw away the old one (unless you've annotated it).

A third edition is planned. Gyselen has not started writing it, but she is collecting information.

What would be better in my opinion would be a catalog of the post-sasanian copper of greater Iran up to, let's say, 750 (end of Umayyads, beginning of the Abbasids). It would include all copper coins of the sentury 650=750, province by province and mint by mint. Then we would actually be able to write a history of the copper coinage, instead of listing types one by one with no synthesis. During the century mints changed back and forth between varieities with images and variaties with only inscriptions, with Middle Persian and Arabic inscripytions, all circulating more or less side by side.

Of course  there are pdfs of the 2nd edition, but the author is a friend of mine so I don't like to share the pdf. It's not hard to find, however. If you want to collect these coins, you have to have the second edition

Michael Bates

THCoins

Thanks for the elaborate explanation Michael !
I knew there was a 2009 version of the work and more or less assumed this was a reprint of the older version with an addendum. I full agree with your assessment on the desirability of a new comprehensive work on the subject.

Regarding the question on how to present an update of a standard work i had to do quite some thinking myself over recent years. In the past I have discussed with mr Tye the posibilities of an addendum to his work on Jitals from the region somewhat further East. Biggest hurdle I encountered is that new information very often does not fit in the existing catalog and numbering structure of the previous standard work. And that is not a deficiency of the previous work, but a logical consequence of growing insight. Also for the Jitals, information on mint locations is often lacking, so a structure primarily based on geography is almost impossible. And added to this the fact that different mints probably imitated eachothers designs.

I hope that is a bit easier for the post-sasanian coppers, but anyhow a new catalog synthesizing current knowledge for this category would be a formidable achievement !

Anthony

Figleaf

Unhindered by knowledge of this particular series, I agree with Michael on the principle that a listing by logical series far outshines one by denomination. Two examples:

When I was young and innocent, THE catalogues of modern coins were Yeoman and Craig. Both authors were experienced collectors and both set up their listings by logical series. They were succeeded by Krause & Mishler, who organised their lists by denomination/date, then made exceptions, creating segments, which did not achieve clarity and made a coin harder to find. I still use Y/Cr, as it provides instant insight in how finance and coinage developed. Try tracing how silver was abandoned in successive series of UK coins in KM.

Today, catalogues of coins of Scotland are as difficult to find as the coins. I still use Seaby, where they are listed by ruler/denomination. Along came Deeman, who created a superb annotated listing of these coins by logical series here. It is a vast improvement over Seaby.

Can a listing of post-Sasanian copper of greater Iran be created on WoC? The Scottish coin thread proves that it is technically possible. I don't know if it is humanly feasible, though. Another possibility would be a Wikipedia-style site like WoT. That would require quite a bit more planning, but the advantage is that others can chime in, e.g. with pictures. It would be easier to search and create cross links and multiple entries by a set of indexes, yet an editor can keep listings uniform.

Not saying it ought to be done, just making the options clear.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.