Author Topic: Sikh empire, KM7.2, 19th century paisa  (Read 3654 times)

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translateltd

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Sikh empire, KM7.2, 19th century paisa
« on: July 04, 2007, 09:26:48 PM »
Well done on pinning it down, anyway - these things can be a real trial!  I have put an "unknown" Indian copper on TradeMe (local eBay clone) and just don't have the energy to try and track it down!

As to the term "princely" states, I have always found it a bit patronising.  Not quite sure when the term started being used, but I do remember that when I first started collecting, the catalogues that I used referred to "Native States".  Maybe someone found that a bit non-PC sometime in the 1970s and concocted the strange term "princely" instead.  Given that the rulers were rarely princes, the term is a rather odd choice - perhaps one made by someone who didn't really understand royal hierarchies?  (No possible nationality for the concocter mentioned, though I have my suspicions ...)

« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 09:07:41 AM by Figleaf »

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Which Princely State is it?
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2007, 10:33:09 PM »
translateltd,
Care to post the "unknown indian copper" that you placed on TradeMe?  I'd like to take a look.
I share your sentiments about "princely states", but, as is oft said in India, "What to do?"
Richie

translateltd

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Re: Which Princely State is it?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2007, 04:12:05 AM »
Here you go - I've only photographed one side so far.  You should be able to view the auction and the blowup of the image without needing to log in (registration is restricted to NZ and Australian addresses, unfortunately).

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=106931898


« Last Edit: July 06, 2007, 06:17:05 PM by Figleaf »

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Which Princely State is it?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2007, 04:27:40 AM »
well, I had no problem viewing it.  And it is a nice looking coin, in comparison to other worn dump coins.  But I haven't a clue when or where its from. Thanks for showing it to me.
richie

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Which Princely State is it?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2007, 07:50:45 AM »
I use feudal states, a term I would not hesitate for coins from other continents also and one that includes both the dependent and independent states. I'd agree that "native" and "princely" are odd. I would not use those term to describe e.g. the duchy of Brabant or the county of Holland.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Which Princely State is it?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2007, 05:54:22 PM »
As an economist, you?re certainly in a better position than I to find ?feudal? the better choice. But I do prefer it over ?princely?.

I had a friend, Faisal Khan, when I lived in India who was descended from the royal Afghan family that conquered Bhopal.  He was incredibly wealthy. Among his possessions were a few villages:  the livestock, the land, the homes, the streams, all were his.  When his villagers wanted to marry, move, hunt, build or sell crops, they needed his permission.  There were no wages. When I visited one of his villages, people waited on me hand and foot.  India is legendary for hospitality, but this was more than that.  This was given to me out of respect, obligation, custom, duty and honor. It had nothing to do with me other than through my relationship with Faisal.
Faisal had obligations also.  When farmers in another village complained of a particularly destructive wild boar, Faisal and his uncle were the ones with the responsibility to hunt and kill the pig. My personal responsibility was to survive the night without getting shot.
 Faisal also introduced me to the Bhopalis, the entertainers at men?s only parties to which I was invited.  They were a resident community of eunuchs descended from servants of the Nowab of Bhopal.  Who else do you trust to take care of your harem? Anyway, it all seemed ?middle ages? to me:  exotic drag queens with gyrating hips to the sounds of harmonium and tabla surrounded by bearded patriarchs in hat, waist coat, kurta and pajama in a hall devoid of decoration and windows.
Richie

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Which Princely State is it?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2007, 01:59:05 AM »
translateltd,
Try looking at Km 7.3, or even better, Km 7.2 in the Sikh Empire, 19th century.  Yes, your photo seems to be upside down.  And without seeing the "obverse"?, this is just a guess.
What do you think?
Richie

translateltd

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Re: Which Princely State is it?
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2007, 03:30:26 AM »
translateltd,
Try looking at Km 7.3, or even better, Km 7.2 in the Sikh Empire, 19th century.  Yes, your photo seems to be upside down.  And without seeing the "obverse"?, this is just a guess.
What do you think?
Richie

Looks like you're right - well done!  I've added a "vendor's comment" to the auction for good measure.  There isn't enough clear detail on the other side to be absolutely sure about the attribution down to sub-types, but it certainly appears to be one of those that you mention.

Thanks!

Martin
NZ

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Which Princely State is it?
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2007, 04:29:52 AM »
Glad to have helped Martin.
Richie

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Sikh empire, 19th century paisa
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2007, 06:19:17 PM »
Neat determination, Rangnath. Ought to help the coin sell. Good luck, translateltd (don't forget we also have a for sale board on this site).

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Rangnath

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Re: Sikh empire, 19th century paisa
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2007, 06:25:31 PM »
Nice job Peter, placing the Sikh coin in a seperate file.  You sure keep on top of things in this site!
richie