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Sterling-standard coins used in non-sterling coinages

Started by translateltd, September 22, 2009, 10:18:50 PM

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translateltd

Quote from: Ice Torch on September 22, 2009, 09:50:43 PM
And never before have so many countries (because of the euro) used the same specifications for their coins.

I'd be interested in a quick survey to see how many countries and territories issued at least some of their denominations to a matching standard under the later British Empire/Commonwealth from about 1910 through to the 1960s/1990s - the 6d, shilling and florin (later 5c/10c/20c or other local name) specs were used more widely than other denominations so I'd focus on those for starters:

UK
Australia
NZ
South Africa
(Northern) Rhodesia / Zambia
Southern Rhodesia
Fiji
Samoa
Tonga
Cook Islands
Solomon Is
PNG (decimal issues)
Malawi

That's 13 and I'm doing this from memory and struggling - any more I've missed?




Figleaf

Your deadline of 1910 leaves out a number of £sd using countries. Not listing those that also come in after 1910, they are:

1816 to 1910
Antigua, Bahamas, Ionian islands (local denominations), Lower Canada, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, St. Helena, Upper Canada

A number of colonies were using British coins, sometimes supplemented with generic "funny" denominations, some of which were used in Britain also:

Generic British and British Imperial
British Guiana, British West Indies, Ceylon, Falklands, Gibraltar, Great Britain, Ireland, Malta, Mauritius, St. Helena

Leaving out token only and pseudo coin only areas, I think the following are within the area of your question:

1910 to decimalization
Australia, Bermuda, Biafra, British West Africa, Cyprus (local denominations), Fiji, Gambia, Guernsey (local denominations), Ireland, Isle of Man, Jamaica, Jersey, Malawi, New Guinea, New Zealand, Nigeria, Rhodesia and Nyasaland (Central African Federation), South Africa, Southern Rhodesia, Turks and Caicos (debatable), Uganda, Zambia

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

translateltd

#2
No - there is a point being missed here.  I'm not talking about countries that used sterling, but countries whose coins were of the same size, fabric and denomination as those used in the UK (so a shilling = 5p = 10c = 10 ngwee, etc.)

The East and West African coins were on a totally different standard; those of Nigeria a slightly different size if I recall properly.

I did forget Ireland, IOM, Jersey, Guernsey, Gibraltar, St Helena/Ascension, the Falklands, all of whose 5p and 10p coins matched the old shilling and florin standard until the early 1990s.  So that takes my total to 20.  There must still be more.

The reason for selecting 1910 as an approximate starting point was that it was only after that date that other countries/territories started issuing coins to the same standard with any regularity.  I can only think of the Kruger silver coins of the 1890s that match the standard in question before that date.

Not sure about the 50 and 100 mils coins of Palestine - they were more-or-less to the same size and value as the English shilling and florin, but was the fineness the same?


andyg

Quote from: translateltd on September 22, 2009, 11:29:27 PM

Not sure about the 50 and 100 mils coins of Palestine - they were more-or-less to the same size and value as the English shilling and florin, but was the fineness the same?


The 50 and 100 Mils were a different fineness (.720) and also slighly heavier than standard UK £SD.
As regards fineness few were the same as the UK after 1920, Australia being one example.
British West Africa issued 3d, 6d, 1/- and 2/- to the same specifications as the UK coinage from 1913 to 1920.

translateltd

Quote from: andyg on September 23, 2009, 12:02:14 AM
The 50 and 100 Mils were a different fineness (.720) and also slighly heavier than standard UK £SD.
As regards fineness few were the same as the UK after 1920, Australia being one example.
British West Africa issued 3d, 6d, 1/- and 2/- to the same specifications as the UK coinage from 1913 to 1920.

Thanks for this - OK, delete "fineness" from my list of criteria :-)  Australian silver shillings and 6ds used to circulate here in NZ in the period when ours (and Britain's) had already been reduced to base metal, in any case.

I wonder how many countries still issue coins that conform - in size, if no longer in metal - to the British coinage standard as at the reform of 1816?  NZ and Fiji no longer do; Australia's 5c and 10c are still the same size as the 1816 6d and shilling, and the 20c the size of the florin after 1887, though of course are base metal now, and the same is probably true of Samoa, Tonga, the Cooks and the Solomons with their respective equivalent denominations.  They must be just about the only ones left now.

Oh, and for my list earlier, add Kiribati and Tuvalu - that makes 22 by my reckoning so far.


BC Numismatics

Martin,
  Northern Rhodesia never had their own coins or banknotes,but they did issue their own postal orders,which were overprinted British Postal Orders.

You have forgotten to list Cyprus - 9 Piastres = 1/-,18 Piastres = 2/-,45 Piastres = 5/-,plus there is the 25,50,& 100 Mils of the 1955-57 issue & the 1963-82 issue.

Aidan.

translateltd

Quote from: BC Numismatics on September 23, 2009, 12:41:23 AM
Martin,
  Northern Rhodesia never had their own coins or banknotes,but they did issue their own postal orders,which were overprinted British Postal Orders.

You have forgotten to list Cyprus - 9 Piastres = 1/-,18 Piastres = 2/-,45 Piastres = 5/-,plus there is the 25,50,& 100 Mils of the 1955-57 issue & the 1963-82 issue.

Aidan.

Thanks for Cyprus.  Northern Rhodesia is covered by Zambia anyway, so that makes 23. 

BC Numismatics

Martin,
  Botswana's 1976-91 50 Thebe coins are the same size as the old large 10p. coins,but the 10 & 25 Thebe coins are not the same size as the 6d. or 1/- coins though.

Aidan.

tonyclayton

Quote from: translateltd on September 22, 2009, 11:29:27 PM
No - there is a point being missed here.  I'm not talking about countries that used sterling, but countries whose coins were of the same size, fabric and denomination as those used in the UK (so a shilling = 5p = 10c = 10 ngwee, etc.)

As I recall France and Italy had copper coins of the same size as the halfpenny and penny - an early precursor of currency unification that culminated in the euro. Certainly France had 5 and 10 centimes which certainly circulated in the UK.

translateltd

Quote from: tonyclayton on September 23, 2009, 11:20:08 PM
As I recall France and Italy had copper coins of the same size as the halfpenny and penny - an early precursor of currency unification that culminated in the euro. Certainly France had 5 and 10 centimes which certainly circulated in the UK.

True, though that is a case of accident rather than design - the LMU bronze coins aren't inheritors of the post 1816/1860 British monetary standards in the same way as the other examples I was listing/seeking - not least because the French 5c and 10c coins were introduced in the 1850s, some years *before* the British switched over to the smaller bronze modules.  Surely we wouldn't have deliberately accepted a Continental standard, or knowingly adopted one that would have led to the wholesale import of foreign coin?  (I know that Pears Soap imported Napoleon III coppers by the ton after 1870 for overstamping with advertising slogans and releasing into circulation in the UK, which I think we've discussed elsewhere.)

BC Numismatics

Quote from: tonyclayton on September 23, 2009, 11:20:08 PM
As I recall France and Italy had copper coins of the same size as the halfpenny and penny - an early precursor of currency unification that culminated in the euro. Certainly France had 5 and 10 centimes which certainly circulated in the UK.

Tony,
 Martin is talking about British Empire & British Commonwealth coins.

Martin,
 In the case of Kiribati,the Solomon Islands,& Tuvalu,it is only the 5c.,10c.,& 20c. coins that fit into this standard,as does the Papua New Guinean 5,10,20,& old 50 Toea coins.

The Kiribati brass 5c. dated 2003 depicting the monkey is the exception to this.

Fiji's 5c.,10c.,& 20c. coins from 1969 to 2006 also fit into this,as does the old $1 coin.

Fiji has now pulled the 1c. & 2c. coins from circulation,& followed New Zealand by changing the size of the 10c.,20c.,& 50c. coins.In contrast to New Zealand,the 5c. coin has been retained,albeit slightly larger,the 10c. coin remains nickel-plated steel,but the 50c. coin is now round.The new $1 coin is due to be put into circulation in December.

Aidan.

translateltd

Thank you, Aidan.  I believe Tony is already aware of that, and for the rest, you are largely repeating what I've written anyway ...


BC Numismatics

Martin,
  I was clarifying which of the Pacific Islands had coins similar in size to the 6d.,1/-,& 2/- coins,& which denominations.

You can also classify the 10 & 20 Francs from the New Hebrides in this,being issued under the Anglo-Franch Condominium administration - the 10 Francs is the same size as 1/-,& the 20 Francs is the same size as the 2/-,albeit,in pure nickel.

Aidan.