Author Topic: Persian "good luck" silver token  (Read 1218 times)

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Offline saro

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Persian "good luck" silver token
« on: February 17, 2018, 01:53:53 PM »
A lovely small silver token in "mint state"..
"Mubarak bad" written on a flowered background;  handstruck on a very thin planchet : 19mm but a weight of only 0,415g !...(no date)
it is so thin that a mirror image of the incuse reverse gives a very clear legend

I wonder if it couldn't have been made for a use as scattering coin for a ceremony ?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 02:38:10 PM by saro »
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Online Figleaf

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Re: Persian "good luck" silver token
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2018, 12:38:39 AM »
Another great find, saro! Just as much an item of culture as any coin.

I have never read anything about coin scattering in Iran. I read that in India, the Mughal would literally scatter very thin, coin-like objects to crowd. In Britain, coins would be handed out to guests at a wedding ceremony and in France, they would be offered to the priest officiating at the wedding and in both cases, they would be real coins. In modern Austria, they are not coins and they are distributed as elegant new year wishes with perhaps some advertising.

I could imagine something midway in Iran: throwing a new year party and presenting the guests with these new year tokens to play with. However, that's all speculation. Maybe Maythem knows more?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline saro

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Re: Persian "good luck" silver token
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2018, 09:17:16 AM »
Another great find, saro! Just as much an item of culture as any coin.
 In Britain, coins would be handed out to guests at a wedding ceremony and in France, they would be offered to the priest officiating at the wedding and in both cases, they would be real coins.

In France, I confirm ! this very old practice was (and still is) in use mainly in South West of the country : the bride and groom collect 13 coins and put them in a special pocket which is called a "treizain" (treize = thirteen); the day of the ceremony, the priest blesses them, keeps one and gives back the twelve others to the newlyweds who preciously keep them as a guarantee of happiness...

In years 70, the silver 5 F "semeuse" or "10 F "Hercule" were used...depending of the fortune of the youngs.. (for me it was the 5F...)
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline EWC

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Re: Persian "good luck" silver token
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2018, 10:24:58 AM »
Any idea why there are 12?   Sounds like 12 witnesses to the act, and thus reminiscent of the English jury trial.  (It has been suggested that a Yorkshireman, Robert of Selby, was in part behind transferring this, an older Islamic tradition, from Sicily, to London, in the 12th century. There are of course possible alternative Christian interpretations.  Isidore of Seville calls 12 a perfect number I think.)

My wife remembers the grocer in her village throwing handfuls of sixpences in the air outside his shop on the day of his daughter's wedding.  (Painfully - another child trod on her hand as she tried to grab one - around 1958)

I never saw this - but I have see the Hebridean Wedding dance - which tradition might well be many thousands of years older than all the above.

As I recall, Dubois writes interestingly about the use of gold fanams in Brahmanical investiture ceremonies - about 1815

Offline andyg

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Re: Persian "good luck" silver token
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2018, 11:07:01 AM »
Any idea why there are 12?   Sounds like 12 witnesses to the act,


A biblical reference?
Of course the actual reference may be older as it may well have been commandeered.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline saro

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Re: Persian "good luck" silver token
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2018, 11:20:48 AM »
Yes Andyg, most likely a biblical reference.
Any idea why there are 12?
Thank you Robert for your remarks  ;)
I was said that the practice of the "treizain" is related to "the Last Supper" (la Cène) :  13 coins symbolized  the Christ and the twelve apostles, among them Judas...not a good omen and it's the reason why the priest picks up a coin and gives back 12 coins to the newlyweds...
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)