Author Topic: Non Desideriis Hominum Sed Voluntate Dei  (Read 1160 times)

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Offline bagerap

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Non Desideriis Hominum Sed Voluntate Dei
« on: October 24, 2017, 05:17:57 PM »
An interesting little copper medal, the legend Non Desideriis Hominum Sed Voluntate Dei was adopted by Henry Benedict Maria Clement  the younger brother of Charles Edward Stuart. Upon the death of his brother Henry became the last Stuart Pretender to the throne of England. The legend can be translated as Not accepted by men, but by the will of God

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Henry_Benedict_Maria_Clement_(DNB00)

I have found only one other similar medal, a silver version hallmarked 1910 went through an auction house a few years ago without further elucidation. The centre inscription has so far eluded me.



Offline redwine

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Re: Non Desideriis Hominum Sed Voluntate Dei
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2017, 06:23:01 PM »
Could it relate to Mary III or was that Mary IV  - M R - Maria Regina
See p57 here


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Offline bagerap

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Re: Non Desideriis Hominum Sed Voluntate Dei
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2017, 06:57:32 PM »
I'm reasonably sure that like its silver cousin, this medal is a product of C20th and that the MR relates to some modern pretender.
The 2014 auction of the hallmarked piece described it as Scottish, without explaining why, although possibly from the HM.

Offline bagerap

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Re: Non Desideriis Hominum Sed Voluntate Dei
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2017, 07:14:26 PM »
I take that back. Having read her wiki page, Maria Theresa of Austria-Este is looking to fill the bill nicely. She would have been Mary III in both England and Scotland so where does the IV fit in?

Offline redwine

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Re: Non Desideriis Hominum Sed Voluntate Dei
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2017, 07:40:38 PM »
Doh, I forgot about Scotland!  ::)
Not being in any way a fan of the royals I'd have to say Scotland is the answer.
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Offline bagerap

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Re: Non Desideriis Hominum Sed Voluntate Dei
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2017, 08:35:06 PM »
I'm leaning towards a pre war pro-Jacobite group. There are some tenuous links with the struggle between UGLE and Grand Orient for pre-eminence in world masonry. Grand Orient was reputedly still supporting Jacobitism in an efforts to sway Scottish masons. The plot thickens.

Offline redwine

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Re: Non Desideriis Hominum Sed Voluntate Dei
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2017, 11:23:49 PM »
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Offline malj1

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Re: Non Desideriis Hominum Sed Voluntate Dei
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2017, 11:53:50 PM »
See further down on that same link:

Archduchess Maria Theresa of Austria-Este
("Mary IV")[5]
20 November 1875–
3 February 1919

and [5] =

Mary III & II and Mary IV & III were numbered in such a way because some Jacobites regard Elizabeth I of England as illegitimate, and therefore consider Mary, Queen of Scots, to have been the rightful Queen Mary II of England from the death of Mary I

This seems to answer it precisely.
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Offline malj1

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Re: Non Desideriis Hominum Sed Voluntate Dei
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2017, 01:47:45 AM »
Perfect.  8)
Malcolm
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Offline redwine

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Re: Non Desideriis Hominum Sed Voluntate Dei
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2017, 11:15:11 AM »
Well done gentlemen! 8)
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