Author Topic: Auctions of coins and "Money laundering"  (Read 1939 times)

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Offline Gusev

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Auctions of coins and "Money laundering"
« on: January 03, 2017, 07:51:38 PM »
I often see at auctions suspicious sellers.
They sell coins with the "Buy Now" and announce a price higher the real 50-100 times.  ???
I see only one explanation - they thus make "Money laundering".
Your opinion experts on the economy?

In third world countries "Launder money" via stadiums, cinemas, restaurants, expensive shops......... I saw it in Africa and Latin America.
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Offline Afrasi

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Re: Auctions of coins and "Money laundering"
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2017, 09:21:51 PM »
I have no better explanation for this phenomen.

Offline dheer

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Re: Auctions of coins and "Money laundering"
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2017, 02:38:12 AM »
There are multiple reasons for high price. Money laundering is definitely a reason.

At times the seller is stupid, hence list the item at high price.
At times it is for SEO
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Offline Afrasi

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Re: Auctions of coins and "Money laundering"
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2017, 10:53:16 AM »
What is SEO?

Offline dheer

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Re: Auctions of coins and "Money laundering"
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2017, 02:32:59 PM »
What is SEO?

Search Engine Optimization.
I am say selling x product that is ranked low compared to other sellers and searched low ... the way to increase display of my x product in home page or search etc ...

So as a seller I will list a frequently search item "Y" with an absurd price. As this is searched more frequently, my item Y will showup and no one will buy at this absurd price. However since my some products are ranked higher; all my items get higher ranking and when the product x is searched it will show high up ...
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Offline Gusev

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Re: Auctions of coins and "Money laundering"
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2017, 02:52:19 PM »
Money laundering does not like publicity.
I do not see the connection Search Engine Optimization and illegal activities.

This seller buys from himself  :D or through nominees.
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Offline natko

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Re: Auctions of coins and "Money laundering"
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2017, 08:31:58 PM »
Sometimes it's, besides SEO, which is connected to it, a pure marketing. Say you are a serious seller and want to sell some of your 500 common coins among 500 scarcer and some rare. You will price 100 of your common and scarcer coins at good prices to attract a customers who miss 5-10 of them. A customer, for the convenience of a bigger order will also take another 15 common coins, some of which are a little bit and some are much more expensive than elsewhere, say 20 euros instead of 5 for a common coin. You can price a rare coin high and somebody could catch to it, as many collectors nowadays don't have patience for waiting for a coin to show up somewhere for several years.

There are these other, "stupid", small time sellers who just put up even higher, ridiculous prices for some coins in case someone is crazy enough and they're in no need for the quick money. Doesn't need to be laundering necessarily. My holiday home neighbor sells his house at 2M euro although the market price is at most 900K. He doesn't really want to sell it, but if somebody's willing to pay that amount, well...

I see the problem of reselling own coins at big auction houses. One Austrian house is often selling coins from previous auctions as a part of their strategy no matter it was bid on by the real people. Guess it's a kind of reserve price, but they attract bidders with low starts. Although that kind of rigging the market prices should be illegal, as it's not only irritating, rather fraudulent, I guess nobody cares since they pay the difference tax on fees from the hammer price.

Rigging the own bids is yet another subject...

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Auctions of coins and "Money laundering"
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2017, 11:33:49 PM »
I don't think it would be an efficient way to launder money. Cheaper and more efficient is to take your dirty money in cash to a casino and change it for chips. Change the chips back later and ask for a receipt or have the casino put it in your bank account, so you can explain the money as gambling profits. In the most crooked countries, you can buy the casino receipts for a small fee, so you don't have any other costs. In South America, the drugs dealers even own the casino.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline natko

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Re: Auctions of coins and "Money laundering"
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2017, 01:28:18 PM »
Yeah, I've seen Hell or High Water yesterday, too!  ;D

Only the casinos have cameras and in the States the rangers would likely have access to the records and simply see who just sat around with a bunch of chips. About casino owners, do you think it's different in Belgium, France or the US? Just guessing though.

Offline dheer

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Re: Auctions of coins and "Money laundering"
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2017, 02:55:40 PM »

There are these other, "stupid", small time sellers who just put up even higher, ridiculous prices for some coins

In coin we have quite a few stupid sellers who hear that some coin went for x price and believe the routine coin they have is worth the same x price. Such things are rampant on eBay and other such market places.
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Auctions of coins and "Money laundering"
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2017, 04:33:43 PM »
Last time I saw a film the lead actor was David Niven ::) No TV either (bad eyesight).

In Belgium and France the casinos are state or lower government-owned and there are lots of cameras. The way to find out if it's state-owned is to go in, say you are a collector and ask to buy sample chips for your collection. If they throw you out it's state-owned. If there's a set of low values ready for you it's private :)

Peter

An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.