Author Topic: Tanka of Jahangir- Double dam!! 41.4 grams  (Read 407 times)

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Offline abhinumis

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Tanka of Jahangir- Double dam!! 41.4 grams
« on: February 26, 2020, 04:34:19 PM »
Hi all,
Posting an extremely rare coin
This is an Tanka or a double dam of Jahangir from mint Kotri.. Kotri is now a small town in the copper rich areas of Rajasthan. The tankas of Akbar are available more or less from Bairata, Gobindpur and Ahmedabad while tankas of Agra and Delhi are very rare. After Akbar Jahangir seems to continue the trend but the tankas are very rare and those available are generally very worn out. However this one is in a much better state of preservation. Hope members benefit from the post as I think very few have actually seen a Jahangir tanka
Regards
Abhishek (Abhinumis)
Dr.Abhishek

Offline Saikat

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Re: Tanka of Jahangir- Double dam!! 41.4 grams
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2020, 05:53:53 PM »
Beautiful coin. Even much better than most of the Akbar Tankas I have seen.
Droolworthy!
Thanks,
Saikat
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Offline TTerrier

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Re: Tanka of Jahangir- Double dam!! 41.4 grams
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2020, 06:12:07 PM »
Great coin - thanks for doing the overlay!  The early rulers certainly tied up a lot of copper metal in producing all these heavy coins - was copper relatively plentiful (at a low production cost) during this time period?

Offline abhinumis

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Re: Tanka of Jahangir- Double dam!! 41.4 grams
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2020, 06:17:44 PM »
Thanks Saikat for appreciating
Dr.Abhishek

Offline abhinumis

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Re: Tanka of Jahangir- Double dam!! 41.4 grams
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2020, 06:23:07 PM »
Great coin - thanks for doing the overlay!  The early rulers certainly tied up a lot of copper metal in producing all these heavy coins - was copper relatively plentiful (at a low production cost) during this time period?

The early Mughals producing lots of coppers is only Akbar (although some of his mints are also very rare). Jahangir and Shah Jahan produced coppers in more limited quantity and much fewer mints. As for Jahangir , one would find less than 20 mints for Jahangir compared to more than 70 odd mints for Akbar.
Dr.Abhishek

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Tanka of Jahangir- Double dam!! 41.4 grams
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2020, 09:49:27 AM »
A coin of over 40 grams is noteworthy by itself. Add massive historic interest and an enviable grade and you get a museum piece. Great to see it, especially accompanied by an overlay that includes a reconstruction of the mint name that looks like quite a hat trick to me. A thread that will be a reference. TFS!

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline asm

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Re: Tanka of Jahangir- Double dam!! 41.4 grams
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2020, 05:55:13 AM »
...... The early rulers certainly tied up a lot of copper metal in producing all these heavy coins - was copper relatively plentiful (at a low production cost) during this time period?
From various discussions, I have understood that copper was extracted from relatively shallow mines in the early part of Akbar's reign. Later in to his reign, as more copper was extracted, it was at a little more depth - and at this depth, the water seeped in to the mines and this increased the cost of mining. In later times the cost of mining increased making it economically not viable to mint large quantities of copper.

Amit

PS: based on my discussions with Mr Arthur Needham. 
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Tanka of Jahangir- Double dam!! 41.4 grams
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2020, 12:03:36 PM »
While this sounds good in theory, I suspect that the truth is less straightforward. Yes, mines have a water problem. It starts with rainfall. Even a shallow mine would have a water problem in monsoon times. Therefore, all mines would need a system to evacuate water. Indian agriculture used hand driven pumps for irrigation in the times of Akbar. Moreover, Akbar the conqueror would have slaves at hand. Granted, you'd need more slaves and pumps as the mines got deeper, but that problem was the same in e.g. Welsh tin mines and yet, they kept producing tin.

Another thing Akbar the conqueror would have at hand was loot. Of course, his part of the loot would be horses, precious metals and other good stuff, but the common soldiers would steal anything they could sell, including the pots and pans of every poor household they met. This must have driven the price of copper down as long as the conquests went on, while loss of land would have meant the opposite. Similarly, conquests would have meant surplus cannon, while lost wars would mean demand for copper to make cannons.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline asm

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Re: Tanka of Jahangir- Double dam!! 41.4 grams
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2020, 05:57:52 AM »
While this sounds good in theory, I suspect that the truth is less straightforward. Yes, mines have a water problem. It starts with rainfall. Even a shallow mine would have a water problem in monsoon times. Therefore, all mines would need a system to evacuate water. Indian agriculture used hand driven pumps for irrigation in the times of Akbar. Moreover, Akbar the conqueror would have slaves at hand. Granted, you'd need more slaves and pumps as the mines got deeper, but that problem was the same in e.g. Welsh tin mines and yet, they kept producing tin.
I have not mentioned that the mines closed due to water logging. I have clearly stated that the extraction costs increased with time. As you can see, the production of coins at mine head mints - a majority of mints with prolific copper minting in the times of Akbar were these mints - slowed down with time. Narnol is a classic example.

Another thing Akbar the conqueror would have at hand was loot. Of course, his part of the loot would be horses, precious metals and other good stuff, but the common soldiers would steal anything they could sell, including the pots and pans of every poor household they met. This must have driven the price of copper down as long as the conquests went on, while loss of land would have meant the opposite. Similarly, conquests would have meant surplus cannon, while lost wars would mean demand for copper to make cannons.

While it is likely that this was indeed the case while the Greater Mughals were in control, after Aurangzeb, more wars may have been lost than won. Not much booty was collected and if and when it was collected, the coins were minted in the local area - we see a whole lot of new short worked mints (for both Silver & Copper) in the empire for reigns which were expansionist. In case of Akbar, till about his 30th year, there were only 7 major mints for Silver and not a very large number for Copper either. The copper mints were mostly located in Rajasthan area - the copper mine area. The other mints - were what are called the camp or traveling mints - which may have made use of local resources - old coins, cannon, pots & pans etc.

Amit   
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline abhinumis

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Re: Tanka of Jahangir- Double dam!! 41.4 grams
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2020, 07:01:51 AM »
To be very frank , in spite of the apparently large number of mints even for Akbar, on closer inpection one would realise that most of the mints are only transitional. The transitional mints were mostly to remonitise the newly conquered areas of the empire. Once the expansion roughly stopped , the number of mints too closed operations. For the last 15 years of his reign , out of his 70 odd mints, hardly 7 were operational and actively minting copper coins. Something to think about!!
Dr.Abhishek

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Tanka of Jahangir- Double dam!! 41.4 grams
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2020, 09:40:08 AM »
I have not mentioned that the mines closed due to water logging.

No, but it's practically the same thing. Once you go from surface mining to tunnel mining, the depth of the tunnel is of no influence on how hard it is to tunnel. Getting the miners up and down is their problem. Getting ore up is a question of baskets and ropes. What remains is getting the water out, which is a constant problem and a pure cost item. As you know, once you lose that battle, the mine is likely lost forever.
 
While it is likely that this was indeed the case while the Greater Mughals were in control, after Aurangzeb, more wars may have been lost than won.

Yes, that's what I argued also. Win war, low price of copper. Lose war, high price of copper (I would expect that horse prices would react similarly, but you can't mint a horse.)

In case of Akbar, till about his 30th year, there were only 7 major mints for Silver and not a very large number for Copper either. The copper mints were mostly located in Rajasthan area - the copper mine area. The other mints - were what are called the camp or traveling mints - which may have made use of local resources - old coins, cannon, pots & pans etc.

I realise most of Akbar's mints were camp mints. I am just far less polite about what they used, calling it loot, rather than local resources or remonetising, though, in fairness, worn cannons would have gone in there too. In those days, the daily needs of an army were largely food for humans and animals and (to a much lesser extent) supplies, mainly horses, buffalos and arrows plus services, ranging from medicine and repairs of personal equipment to alcohol and drugs. Big transactions would be settled in silver, but you'd need copper for the small ones. Using metallic loot is a perfectly good solution.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.