Author Topic: Tomar rulers of Gwalior, AE half fulus  (Read 2128 times)

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Offline saro

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Tomar rulers of Gwalior, AE half fulus
« on: January 04, 2015, 11:23:29 AM »
This copper coin could be a half falus of Tomar rulers of Gwalior series, similar to Goron & Goenka "Unattributed" MU20 but in copper and not billon
it seems that "Raja S..." could be read ? so that a part of the date (looks 951 ?? probably 851)
weight : 4,50g / 15,5mm
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 10:00:17 PM by capnbirdseye »
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Unattributed Gwalior AE half fulus
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2015, 10:20:46 AM »
Intriguing. I find an 8 difficult to reconstruct, but will believe a 9 (or a 7, if you say so).

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline saro

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Re: Unattributed Gwalior AE half fulus
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2015, 12:34:12 PM »
Yes Peter, the 1st digit looks well like a "9" , but 951 would say that these series has been struck with a 40 rati standard at a time where Gwalior was under Suri rule, which is highly improbable....
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Unattributed Gwalior AE half fulus
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2015, 01:19:19 PM »
I learned that the easy way out for Indian coins that don't make sense is to call them kaccha pice, but you would probably want to be more scientific about it. Have you considered a PM to Oesho?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline saro

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Re: Unattributed Gwalior AE half fulus
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2015, 05:26:50 PM »
Have you considered a PM to Oesho? Peter

Here the kind reply of Oesho:
"About the coins of the Tomar dynasty, most is described and listed in the book of Goron/Goenka, but the attribution was not clear at that time. Now it is accepted that these are issues of the Tomar dynasty of Gwalior.In an auction catalog in India a gold tanka of this type was offered. The coin was exactly similar to MU27, but in gold. Weight 10.46 g.
No further description or article has appeared as far as I know. The catalogue description is the most what can be found."


In addition : the Tomar rulers of Gwalior

The Rajput Tomara clan ruled Gwalior from 1398 (when Pramal Dev captured the fort from a Muslim ruler) to 1518 (when Vikramaditya was defeated by Ibrahim lodhi)
•   Pramal Dev (Ver Singh, Bir Sing Deo) 1375 / 777 AH
•   Uddhharan Dev (brother of Pramal Dev).
•   Lakshman Dev Tomar
•   Viramdev 1400 (son of Virsingh Dev).803AH
•   Ganapati Dev Tomar 1419 / 822 AH
•   Dugarendra (Dungar) Singh 1424.
•   Kirti Singh Tomar 1454 / 858 AH
•   Mangal Dev (younger son of Kirti Singh).
•   Kalyanmalla Tomar 1479 / 884 AH
•   Man Singh Tomar 1486 - 1516 (builder of the Man mandir) / 892-922 AH
•   Vikramaditya Tomar 1516 / 922 AH
•   Ramshah Tomar 1526 / 933 AH
•   Salivahan Tomar 1576 / 984 AH
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Unattributed Gwalior AE half fulus
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2015, 11:05:45 PM »
Great! And so, the first figure in the date could indeed be a 7, 8 or 9. Since these coins are not attributed to a ruler, dated coins would be important and probably pretty hard to find.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Abhay

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Re: Unattributed Gwalior AE half fulus
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2015, 05:34:02 AM »
Recently, a lot of 5 Coins was sold in Todywalla Auction. The description attributes the coins to be of Tomar Dynasty.

"Late Medieval Central India, Tomars of Gwalior (c. 15th-16th century AD), Billon Tanka, 9.65g, and Billon ¼ Tanka, 3.84g, and Copper Tanka 9.38g, ½ Tanka, 4.75g and ¼ Tanka 3.5g, crude legend on both sides (G&G MU18, unlisted, MU19, MU20 & MU21 see pages 493 and 494). Extremely fine, Very Rare. (5) These coins form a long series of progressively debased billon and copper Tankas and fractions thereof, which have typological links with the coins of late Delhi Sultans like the Sayyads and Lodhis. The legends they bear are very crude but sometimes show traces of recognizable words. As some such words appear to correspond to those in the genealogy of the Tomars of Gwalior the series is tentatively attributed to them."

Abhay
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Offline saro

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Re: Unattributed Gwalior AE half fulus
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2015, 08:28:43 AM »
Thank you dear Abhay for having posted these coins; not very common indeed and rarely seen together   :applause:
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Unattributed Gwalior AE half fulus
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2015, 12:36:25 PM »
I wonder if the second coin from the top is not the same as the first one, except struck on a smaller flan...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Abhay

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Re: Unattributed Gwalior AE half fulus
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2015, 05:18:12 PM »
I wonder if the second coin from the top is not the same as the first one, except struck on a smaller flan...

Peter

Yes. They are indeed same, except the metal. The first one is Billon while the second one is Copper.

Abhay
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Offline andyg

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Re: Tomar rulers of Gwalior, AE half fulus
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2021, 06:34:31 PM »
This I bought as a coin from Gujarat, but it fits here I think;
The date in retrograde would appear 865  edit - could it be 528 for 852 - the digits in the wrong order?
9.5g - so a Fulus.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 08:47:40 PM by andyg »
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline THCoins

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Re: Tomar rulers of Gwalior, AE half fulus
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2021, 07:28:09 PM »
Nice addition, with intrigueing text design.
As i am mostly focussed on bull and horseman jitals i see abstract bulls and horses everywhere, and certainly also on these coins. Which seems appropriate as the Tomaras of Gwalior are the heirs of the earlier Tomaras who did issue bull and horseman Jitals.

Offline Seeker55

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Re: Tomar rulers of Gwalior, AE half fulus
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2021, 03:18:53 AM »
Fascinating coin. I'll just add that it's often not possible to distinguish copper from billon visually, because billon just means a mixture of copper and silver, and might contain very little silver.

I'm seeing several other coins ascribed to the Tomars of Gwalior that are very similar to your coin on one side only (your second photo). For example, the first coin shown in the 5-coin lot posted by Abhay (undated), and these other dated coins in Zeno.

https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=264522

https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=171732

These are both described as dating from 852, so I'm thinking the first digit of the date on the coin in question here is most likely an 8, for a date of 851. Also in GG, coin MU22, which also matches the coin in question on one side, is described as having dates of possibly 822 and 877, again putting them in the AH 800s.

« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 05:52:48 PM by Seeker55 »