News:

Sign up for the monthly zoom events by sending a PM with your email address to Hitesh

Main Menu

Decimalisation in the UK and its empire

Started by FosseWay, November 29, 2014, 04:12:25 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

FosseWay

Slightly off topic, but have you noticed how most of these design series include a 20 pence coin?

Does anyone know why no 20p was included in the series actually produced, especially given that the other sterling-area countries that recently had gone decimal had included a 20-unit coin?

<k>

Quote from: FosseWay on November 29, 2014, 04:12:25 PM
Does anyone know why no 20p was included in the series actually produced, especially given that the other sterling-area countries that recently had gone decimal had included a 20-unit coin?

Those other countries chose to go to 2 dollars to one pound, so a 20 unit was equal to 2 shillings, therefore they were replacing a coin already in circulation. Jamaica issued a 20 and 25 cent coin, to replace the florin and half crown. Here in the UK a pound remained a pound, and in pre-decimal days there was no circulating denomination above a half crown (two shillings and sixpence - equivalent to 12½ new pence). Crowns were just for collectors. The ten shilling note was the lowest banknote until 1969. So that was quite a gap between half a crown and 10 shillings, but nobody thought about it - that's just the way it was. In 1971, 20 pence was still a bit high for a circulating denomination. Remember that you could still buy a Tube ticket for 2½p!
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

<k>

Quote from: <k> on November 29, 2014, 04:33:11 PM
In 1971, 20 pence was still a bit high for a circulating denomination. Remember that you could still buy a Tube ticket for 2½p!

Come to think of it, we did have a 50 pence coin, though, introduced in 1969 to replace the 10 shilling note. I don't remember anybody complaining about the lack of a 20 or 25 pence coin. We were used to the gap. Perhaps the government also thought that adding another coin, in addition to the new 50 pence coin, would have been too much to handle. As it was, we were already used to the 50p by 1971, as it had been first issued in 1969. 5p and 10p coins co-circulated (from 1968 onwards) with shillings and 2 shillings for many years, and the 6d was retained as 2½p until the end of the 1970s. On "D Day" in 1971, all we had to get used to were the new penny, 2p and ½p coins.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

FosseWay

Yes, but they were clearly thinking about a 20p, otherwise they wouldn't have commissioned designs from all these artists. I could understand if they from the very beginning decided a 20p was unnecessary, but it's a bit strange to factor one in all through the design process and then ditch it.

augsburger

Maybe they thought it would be too much of a change. I don't really know but to bring through the 50p and 10p and 5p first because they were the same denominations, then the 1 pound, 1p and 2p maybe they thought a 20p would be too much for some.

Certainly in the Eurozone changeover many old people complained a lot and spent ages at the checkout trying to figure out what they had.

FosseWay

The pound wasn't added till 1983, after the 20p...

augsburger


andyg

Quote from: FosseWay on November 29, 2014, 04:12:25 PM
Slightly off topic, but have you noticed how most of these design series include a 20 pence coin?

Does anyone know why no 20p was included in the series actually produced, especially given that the other sterling-area countries that recently had gone decimal had included a 20-unit coin?

This is a guess - but the 5p corresponds to 6d, 10p to the Shilling and 20p to the Florin - in the end we went with the plan of increasing the value of the penny rather than retaining the values in this fashion, one assumes it was a clever ploy to hide the inflation of the time.
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

FosseWay

Ah, yes - that makes more sense. Now I come to think of it I do remember reading somewhere about a discussion in the early days of preparing for decimalisation on whether the principal unit should be worth £1 or 10 shillings.

<k>

And as I pointed out, everybody else, including Australia and NZ, went for 2 dollars (or whichever new unit) to one old pound. We retained the full value pound to appease the City, I understand. They did not want to see their manhood reduced.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

FosseWay

Not quite everyone else - Malta and Ireland continued with the old pound too.

<k>

That made sense for Ireland, since it had tied its punt to sterling for many decades - though it broke the link at the end of the 1970s. Yes, Malta had 1000 mils to its new pound or lira. Strangely, its lowest denomination was 2 mils. 10 mils was equal to 1 cent.
Visit the website of The Royal Mint Museum.

See: The Royal Mint Museum.

chrisild

Interestingly (or not ;) ), both Malta and Cyprus had a 1/1000 setup for a while. Malta introduced the Maltese Pound ("£M" on coins) in 1972, with 10 mils being 1 cent, and 100 cents being 1 pound. In 1983 that was replaced by the Maltese Lira ("Lm" on coins) with 100 cents = 1 lira. Also in 1983, Cyprus replaced the 1000 mils = 1 pound system with a 100 cents = 1 pound system ...

Christian

eurocoin

#13
I was able to find 2 references between the documents that I got. These quotes can be found in a letter that Prince Philip wrote to James Callaghan who was Chancellor of the Exchequer at the time.




Figleaf

The feeling that the decimal coins were too small is easily explained. The Pre-decimal coins were all too large. Britain had largely stuck to the sizes of its copper and silver coins. Pre 1816, silver (sometimes copper also) content was still important and dictated the size of the coins. There was no reason for such huge coins afterwards, but conservatism hit hard.

It was to be expected that a paragon of conservatism would advocate continued use of big coins, but the mint had apparently realised that decimalisation was a golden opportunity to make smaller, cheaper, lighter coins. It was probably wise to leave the size of the 5 and 10 new pence unchanged for a while, but the "new" coins dramatically diminished in size. The 50p was not five times as heavy as the 10p. Apart from changing new pence to pence, the mint has been further diminishing the size of UK coins, to the benefit of UK tax payers.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.