Author Topic: Druid's head tokens  (Read 8075 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bruce61813

  • Moderator
  • Meritorious Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 702
    • Gringgotts Coins
Druid's head tokens
« on: March 29, 2007, 02:17:18 AM »
Since you mentioned the tokens from Anglesey Mine Company, here is the 'Druid'.
Bruce
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 02:22:09 AM by bruce61813 »

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32 413
Druid's head tokens
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2007, 12:27:12 AM »
Nice picture! These tokens were heavier than most and very popular indeed, so many are quite worn.

On this copy, I see a straight 1 and 7 in the date. The wreath contains double acorns (on both sides). There are 12 acorns on each side and the 1 in the date is under the right limb of the second N in PENNY. That makes it Dalton and Hamer Anglesey 168.

If my determination is correct, this is a counterfeit (genuine pennies do not have a straight 7; also edge would be plain, while the real tokens have the edge inscription ON DEMAND IN LONDON LIVERPOOL OR ANGLESEY), which is not surprising, since there must have been more imitations than originals. The token was very popular and due to the scarcity of regal coins, even imitations were acceptable as money. The token in the picture shows signs of circulation, so it's as good as any circulating coin in my mind.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline muntenman

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
  • SPERAMUS MELIORA RESURGET CINERIBUS
Druid's head tokens
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2007, 12:56:04 AM »
Didn't know that: always believed these tokens were circulating on the island of Jersey.
GLOBAL MODERATOR under the name of GRIVNAGOZER at www.munthunter.nl

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32 413
Druid's head tokens
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2007, 11:22:49 AM »
Mebbe you confused Anglesey (in Wales) with Alderney (near Jersey), muntenman, but in a sense you are right. The Anglesey halfpennies did circulate widely, so they might well have reached Jersey. More important, in a subsequent wave of token issues, Guernsey, Jersey and Alderney took part with altogether 13 different types, some of which I find of doubtful origin. Strangely, I have found that the silver tokens are easier to find than the copper ones. The picture shows the obverse of the highest value: the three shillings. The 18 pence piece is similar, but smaller.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline muntenman

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
  • SPERAMUS MELIORA RESURGET CINERIBUS
Druid's head tokens
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2007, 07:41:28 PM »
Beautiful specimen though... thanks for sharing. In 2003 I visited St. Helier and in the little Coinshop over there I bought a worn Priest for 10 pence, and the dealer said to me that this was local Jersey money before the English pennies became legal tender. Mind you, the demand in 1870 was much bigger than the Victoria Jersey Coppers could provide for.

GLOBAL MODERATOR under the name of GRIVNAGOZER at www.munthunter.nl

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32 413
Druid's head tokens
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2007, 08:45:22 PM »
OK. I'll bite  ;) What's a worn priest? Anything to de with exorcism?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline muntenman

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
  • SPERAMUS MELIORA RESURGET CINERIBUS
Druid's head tokens
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2007, 10:20:44 PM »
You only see the head of an ol man and cape and no monogram at the back
GLOBAL MODERATOR under the name of GRIVNAGOZER at www.munthunter.nl

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32 413
Druid's head tokens
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2007, 02:03:48 PM »
Now I understand where you're coming from. The Druid and cypher is Welsh. However, there are a few token penny issues of a later period with a druid's head left and a different reverse assigned to Jersey, Guernsey and Alderney. They are:

D 7: ONE PENNY TOKEN in a circle. Around: JERSEY GUERNSEY AND ALDERNEY
D 8: female seated on bale with olive branch and cornucopia, ship in the background COMMERCE
D 9: similar to D 8 but dated 1814

The reverse of D 7 is a variant of a reverse also used on several other tokens of this period. The other two reverses are common on tokens assigned to Canada, so I am not sure at all these ever circulated in the Channel Islands. If you bought one of these for 10p you have a major bargain.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 02:07:15 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline muntenman

  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
  • SPERAMUS MELIORA RESURGET CINERIBUS
Re: Druid's head tokens
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2007, 09:23:29 PM »
I do not have ther ability in the internet-caf? to make photo's and put them on the forum... :'(
GLOBAL MODERATOR under the name of GRIVNAGOZER at www.munthunter.nl

BC Numismatics

  • Guest
Druid's head tokens.
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2007, 11:38:07 PM »
These pieces from Anglesey are THE commonest of all the 18th. Century traders' currency tokens from the British Isles.They even turn up in old collections over here in New Zealand.

Alderney is actually located near Guernsey,not Jersey.Here's an article about Alderney; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alderney .

I was very lucky to have bought one of the Jersey 3/- pieces a few years back.It cost me NZ$150.I've had no luck in finding the Jersey 18 Pence or the British 3/- pieces though.

Aidan.

Offline Figleaf

  • Administrator
  • Honorary Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32 413
Re: Druid's head tokens.
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2007, 11:54:04 PM »
These pieces from Anglesey are THE commonest of all the 18th. Century traders' currency tokens from the British Isles.They even turn up in old collections over here in New Zealand.

That makes sense to me. When the tokens were at last forbidden, the makers had the choice of a) making the expense of having them melted down b) selling them for scrap copper at a loss or c) shipping them to the colonies. At the time, bot Australia and New Zealand struggled with a shortage of coins, so any enterprising merchant shipping copper tokens, even worn or light weight, would have made a tidy profit. Therefore, it is likely that they saw circulation in Australia and New Zealand until local merchants came up with their own, heavier tokens after the Napoleonic wars.

Maybe translateltd knows about research on whether the late 18th century British tokens circulated in New Zealand?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

translateltd

  • Guest
Re: Druid's head tokens.
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2007, 08:04:32 AM »
[

Maybe translateltd knows about research on whether the late 18th century British tokens circulated in New Zealand?

Peter

No, but there would not have been enough of a (European) population base here prior to about 1830 for there to be much call for money of any kind.  It's not impossible that anything would have been pressed into service when required, though.

BC Numismatics

  • Guest
English trader's currency tokens issued in New Zealand.
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2007, 01:31:51 PM »
Peter,Martin forgot to mention that there was one English trader's currency token issuer whose tokens were effectively dumped in the colonies,including New Zealand.These are the London issues of Professor Holloway,who issued 1/2d. & 1d. tokens in 1857 & 1858.

These trader's currency tokens are very popular with British Commonwealth numismatists such as myself.

Aidan.