Author Topic: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.  (Read 3310 times)

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Offline asm

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Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« on: April 24, 2013, 07:46:51 AM »
I believe this is a Dam of Akbar minted at Hissar Firoza. Please help confirm attribution and read the date.

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline abhinumis

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Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2013, 10:23:26 AM »
Time has come to dig this very important thread that never got the attention it needed... This coin I think has been misattributed to Chunar in the past... But the coin is of Hissar.. I would call upon Oesho, Saro, Overlord to comment on it
Dr.Abhishek

akona20

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Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2013, 11:19:37 AM »
Dates on these coins are very important.

Offline asm

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Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2013, 11:57:04 AM »
I posted pictures of this same coin on ZENO. I also remember that the original attribution was done by Mr Shailen Bhandare on FB. It is a coin of Hiassar with epithet Firoze or Firoza. A very early issue dated AH 965.

On another coin of the same mint (a Nisfi), he notes that It is difficult to say whether it is Hisar or Hisar Firuza only on the basis of the AH date - as far as I recall, coins with AH date have been noted both with and without Firuza after Hisar.

On this coin, as Oesho notes on ZENO, there is something seen above Hissar and that may be the epithet - Firoze or Firuza.

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline abhinumis

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Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2013, 08:25:25 PM »
The date is 975 A.H. And I've recently acquired 2 dams of the same type and i can safely conclude that it is hissar rather than hissar firoza.
Dr.Abhishek

Offline asm

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Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2013, 09:37:32 AM »
Jan has read the date as 965 and his comment is that there is some word above the Hissar...... Con you please elaborate your conclusion of both points.

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline abhinumis

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Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2013, 02:03:41 PM »
I have a similar coin with very clear obverse and reverse. The coin is dated 975. 965 is not possible as dams of that date before and after 965 has hissar firoza on it and different than this type. It is highly unlikely that a dam bearing 965 as date would appear.. Regarding some line like impression on hissar is really ornamental.. I'm sure oesho would relook at the date. I'll try to post my coin but as I'm out of Delhi, I'm unable to do so immediately.. But rest assure it is Hisar and not Hisar firoza
Dr.Abhishek

akona20

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Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2013, 02:19:45 PM »
I can perhaps see how Jan has read this as a 6 however a closer inspection will see it is a 7. The 'tail" is part of the legend below. saw a similar problem today in an old listing for an Akbar coin

Offline saro

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Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2013, 05:38:59 PM »
I am afraid to enter in this experts' battle ...I put my helmet :D...

I agree with Jan to read "Hissar Firoza" as there is with no doubt "something" over "Hissar", which is for me the "r" of "firoza", but I am not able for the date to read 965...
on upper part, there isn't "panch" (= 5) but a fraction of "tarrikh"; the other persian words are well "nuhsad..shast wa.."(96x)
at 10/11 o'clock the end  of a letter is present which seems to be "shash" = 6 ( I see nothing else possible)
So the date could be 966 !!!
I'll try to post a drawing tomorrow to illustrate that.
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline saro

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Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2013, 06:59:19 PM »
Here a drawing :
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Offline abhinumis

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Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2013, 07:10:09 PM »
Excellent work Bernard, u r among experts , I'm just an amateur trying to learn.. But I still don't agree with you in terms of Hisar firuza as mint name.. I'll definitely post my coin which will clear a lot of doubts. Also I request you to read the date on my specimen which is less worn and clearer than this coin. I sorely wish l had the coin with me
Dr.Abhishek

akona20

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Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2013, 11:16:22 PM »
no denying that. I see where the error was made on the old workings as well now, hmmm. Need to get a picture of this old coin to see if another error was made. Thanks Saro

Offline asm

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Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2013, 06:48:36 AM »
Thanks a ton saro for the beautiful work on the coin........I can still see some more engraving on the left image (obverse) around 10 - 11 O'clock. May be it is the balance part of the word Firoza????? And thanks for the update on the reading of the date.

I will wait for Abhishek to return from his humanitarian mission to help the victims of the Uttrakhand tragedy and would love to compare his coin.........and a big thank you is also due to him, for digging out this old (well not so old) thread.

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline abhinumis

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Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2013, 10:34:56 AM »
Time and again old catalogues have made error in attributing this coin to chunar only because someone looked at a coin having tail end of the mint and seeing the hijri date.
Dr.Abhishek

akona20

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Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2013, 12:16:01 PM »
There are in fact a number of ways in which the fragments of the legend on this coin can be read so the discussion cane be never ending. So we really need coins that can be fully attributed to really comment.