Rotterdam Pennig 1705

Started by bagerap, July 24, 2012, 07:34:01 PM

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bagerap

I've been lucky enough to win this:




I think it is entirely beautiful, except for the suspension loop.

A) Should I try to have the ring removed?
B) Does any one have the KM# (my disc has corrupted, any one have a spare copy for sale?)

Thanks, Bob


andyg

Are you sure this is a coin?
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....


chrisild

Quote from: andyg on July 24, 2012, 07:37:18 PM
Are you sure this is a coin?

No, he is not. ;) What can be a little confusing is that the Dutch term for "medal" is "penning". This seems to be a vroedschap (sort of city council) medal, see here: http://collectie.museumrotterdam.nl/objecten/57115

Click on "1" to see the side with the river god, and on "2" to see the side with the text. The design is very nice, and I would probably leave the piece as it is ...

Christian

bagerap

Yes, I was thrown by the pennig, but more so by the translator which used the word pennies.
Still, I love it.

andyg

always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Prosit

So what is the story the front design tells?
Dale

bagerap

Hard to tell Dale.
Two Putti or cherubs to the left pouring possibly fruit. Behind them the Caduceus of Mercury, maybe indicating health.
Front dead centre large gent who appears to my mind over refreshed. In his left hand a basket? from which water appears to flow.
Now the reverse appears to be giving thanks for both the rivers and the sea; sources of Rotterdam's prosperity.
That's all she wrote, for now.

Prosit

Looks to me like a workman with a shovel in his right hand and he looks exhausted.
Maybe he was building dikes or something.

Dale

Quote from: bagerap on July 24, 2012, 08:52:04 PM
Hard to tell Dale.
Two Putti or cherubs to the left pouring possibly fruit. Behind them the Caduceus of Mercury, maybe indicating health.
Front dead centre large gent who appears to my mind over refreshed. In his left hand a basket? from which water appears to flow.
Now the reverse appears to be giving thanks for both the rivers and the sea; sources of Rotterdam's prosperity.
That's all she wrote, for now.

THCoins

The thing the putti are pouring from is a "hoorn des overvloeds" or cornucopia and signifies the stream of prosperity originating from trade (As Rotterdam is an international shipping port).
The big guy symbolises the god of the river Maas (or Meuse in French) on which banks the city lie, which also is a reason for its prosperity as a merchant city.

bagerap

Thank you THC, I thought it may be. I had seen "hoorn des overloeds" elsewhere in my research and just fell in love with the expression.

Figleaf

This is a medal for the city council of Rotterdam (1705). The dies are in the Rotterdam city museum and can be seen here and here.

obv: river god lying with one arm on an urn from which water flows (the river Maas/Meuse), holding a shovel. Behind, two cherubs with a caduceus (trade) and cornucopia (wealth). Radiating sun breaking through the clouds.
rev: arms of Rotterdam and text:

data per rivos flumenque mari
aqua per nubes foecunda redit
similis mercium aquarumque vices
ombus cives urbemque beant
ea sit constans cura
senatus

rivers flow into the sea
the water of the clouds give fertility
so merchandise cycles like water
to make sure water and merchandise enter the city
is the constant concern
of the city council

(rough translation)

City council medals were rewards, originally for attending a session. The earlies were good for a large pot of beer in the inn below city hall. Later ones could be exchanged for money or were presented as rewards to deserving citizens. In view of the eye, this one was probably a reward.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.