Author Topic: tram in Copenhagen  (Read 257 times)

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Offline Guillaume Hermann

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tram in Copenhagen
« on: February 02, 2021, 10:25:03 AM »
Hello,

This token is for the tram in Copenhagen, but do you know the dates of its use? Thanks !

Offline FosseWay

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Re: tram in Copenhagen
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2021, 11:29:20 AM »
For the brass version: 1964-11-01 to 1967-03-31 and 1972-04-01 to 1975-04-20.
For the cupro-nickel version (yours): 1967-04-01 to 1972-03-31 and 1975-04-20 to August 1975.

(Info from Smith transport tokens catalogue)

The last trams in Copenhagen actually stopped running in 1972, so these tokens despite saying Københavns Sporveje were used on buses for some of their time in use. At the same time there were tokens issued by AB Omegnen and NESA for other (bus) lines. The three companies were merged over the course of several years and ultimately the tokens of all three were replaced by the HT tokens (Hovedstadsområdets Trafikselskab, Capital Area Transit Company).

Offline Figleaf

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Re: tram in Copenhagen
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2021, 11:47:05 AM »
This is a discount token (rabatpollet). I first visited Copenhagen with my parents in 1956. I distinctly remember the trams, because they resembled - at least in my memory - the ones in Amsterdam at the time.

The three design elements on the token are from left to right Dannebrog, symbol of the Danish royal family, den lille Havfrue, from one of Andersen's enduring fairytales, symbol of Copenhagen and Mastekranen a Danish navy masting crane in Holmen navy wharf, now a tourist attraction and symbol of Denmark's naval past.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Guillaume Hermann

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Re: tram in Copenhagen
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2021, 12:17:22 PM »
Wow, it would have been difficult to give more informations, except the age of the worker who struck this token...  ;D
Thank you very much Sirs!
Peter, what is a discount token? A token for a person with a concession (child, disabled person...)?

Offline Figleaf

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Re: tram in Copenhagen
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2021, 12:38:54 PM »
I am not sure about the structure of the tariffs on Copenhagen public transport at the time. In general, discounts may be given for buying tickets in quantity (like a carnet in Paris), for certain public functions (e.g. city employees, postmen) to give the locals a subsidy not accorded to others or for social reasons (young children, school children, handicapped and blind people, retirees etc.).

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Guillaume Hermann

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Re: tram in Copenhagen
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2021, 12:50:59 PM »
Thanks Figleaf. So tokens do exist without the mention"rabatpollet" I suppose.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: tram in Copenhagen
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2021, 12:59:35 PM »
Not necessarily. Those who pay full price in principle don't need to have a token to do that. AFAIK, all types have the word RABATPOLLET, See more of them here.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Guillaume Hermann

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Re: tram in Copenhagen
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2021, 01:23:39 PM »
Yes, it may be logical.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: tram in Copenhagen
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2021, 01:31:08 PM »
"Discount token" can mean that it's intended for certain categories of traveller (children, pensioners...) who pay a reduced rate, but as Figleaf says, that's not necessarily the case. The other meaning is that passengers obtained a discount by using the token, as opposed to tendering cash to the driver/conductor. In other words, you bought tokens in batches (say 10 or 20) at a price of say 80% of 10 or 20 full fares and then used the tokens as you needed them. If you were an infrequent user (tourist etc.) you could still pay using coins but it cost more.

In this case, I believe the second meaning is more likely, for the simple reason that while I've seen hundreds of these Little Mermaid rabatpoletter, I have never seen any contemporary tokens for the same network with any other "denomination". I therefore surmise that these were the only tokens in use, and the discount was in the price of the token for everyone, not just pensioners or whoever.

This is in contrast to the next generation of tokens used by the Copenhagen transit system (the HT tokens I mentioned above). These come in three "denominations": grundpolet (basic fare token), rabatpolet (discount token) and tillægspolet (supplement token). My guess is that in this case the discount token was used by children, pensioners or other groups entitled to a fare reduction, and the supplement token was for journeys that went beyond a given zone boundary, but I have no concrete evidence for this.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: tram in Copenhagen
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2021, 04:57:40 PM »
I found this site that gives the fares current on the three main public transport companies in greater Copenhagen in 1968. At this point, KS, AB and NESA are still separate entities with their own fare structure; this must have been a real ballache for travellers compared to the modern approach of having tickets, passes, apps etc. that apply to all transport in a metropolitan area.

Anyway, this shows that the basic single walk-up fare for KS (Enhedsbillet) was 1,25 kroner, but rabatpoletter - discount tokens - were five for 5 kroner. So I was bang on with my guess of a discount involving 80% of the standard fare!  ;D

Both AB (Amagerbanen) and NESA (Nordsjællands Elektricitets og Sporvejs Aktieselskab) had basic and discounted fares at the same rates, and used tokens for the discounted fares as KS did - see below (two versions for NESA). I presume, though, that the tokens were not interchangeable between the companies at this point.

Offline FosseWay

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Re: tram in Copenhagen
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2021, 05:09:53 PM »
At some point shortly afterwards,* the city evidently grasped that having one system for the whole area would be more efficient, and tokens were issued in the name of all three companies together (9758). Shortly after this, the companies ceased to have any outwardly visible individual existence, and instead formed part of Hovedstadsområdets Trafikselskab (HT). Below are basic fare (Grundpolet) and Supplement (Tillægspolet) tokens.

Contrary to what I said upthread, I can't find any evidence of a rabatpolet / discount token in the HT series. As far as I know, the only ones are the two shown below. I'm guessing that with the amalgamation they abolished the two-tier fare system where paying in cash cost more than buying tokens. They may have abolished paying in cash altogether, requiring people instead to buy tokens before boarding - I'm not sure.

* Edit: According to this page, the amalgamation into Hovedstadsområdets Trafikselskab took place in 1974.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: tram in Copenhagen
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2021, 05:35:49 PM »
Great fun collection, FosseWay. I am amazed by the NESA tokens. Is the maker of these tokens known? The central part, with NESA and two "swirls" reminds me of a much-used lay-out on Dutch coffee machine tokens such as this one
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Offline FosseWay

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Re: tram in Copenhagen
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2021, 06:25:31 PM »
I don't know the maker, unfortunately, and all of the tokens shown in this thread appear to be lacking in any kind of identifying mark. That would appear to rule out both Meka and Sporrong, both of whom liked to plaster their products with their names.

Offline Guillaume Hermann

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Re: tram in Copenhagen
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2021, 08:30:08 PM »
Yes Peter, it reminded me about some tokens you showed during the December event such as those for Daalderop, De Gruyter (both uniface) or the Volksbond!
Very good job with a totally original way to explore social history through tokens or tokens history through society!
FosseWay, you could almost make me turn into specializing on Copenhagen transport tokens...