Author Topic: UK local transportation tokens  (Read 101957 times)

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Offline agoodall

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #390 on: April 05, 2021, 03:08:47 PM »
I haven't got the hang of this yet! I'll try again with the photos...

Offline Figleaf

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #391 on: April 05, 2021, 07:23:08 PM »
Good stuff, agoodall. Promising also if you think you haven't got the hang of it and yet you can produce fine pictures. The early West Oxfordshire tokens look like they were used soon after decimalisation, while yours clearly came in much later and after a severe bout of inflation.

The wording and layout are virtually the same on the older token (only the word "token" is added and DISTRICT COUNCIL is now horizontal, rather than following the rim), but the deeper relief, larger font and broader rim give a sturdier impression. The denomination is a clear giveaway that your token was used later, rather than being part of the earlier series. Also, your token is not marked by use in any way.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline agoodall

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #392 on: April 05, 2021, 07:59:40 PM »
I haven’t resized or edited photos since before Windows 10 and of course it’s been ‘improved’, so I didn’t know what I was doing. I’m not very patient with computers!

The token came from a sealed bag, so it is uncirculated. I have similar bags from the same council containing 2002 and 2003 dated £1 National Transport tokens, which sort of helps pin down a date range. The general appearance is reminiscent of the similarly sized tokens from Basingstoke & Deane, Eastleigh or West Berkshire. It begs the question, were there other issues or was this a one off and, if so, were they on a break from National Transport tokens or was this a change from paper tokens?

I always imagined this sort of information existed “somewhere” but the more I get into tokens, the more I realise how wrong I was! I’m collecting municipal pre-decimal and decimal transport tokens but I’m most interested in the decimal issues. I was working towards completing the decimals as catalogued on World of Tokens, it hadn’t occurred to me that there might be even more out there!

Offline andyg

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #393 on: April 05, 2021, 08:26:28 PM »
Not sure when these were valid from, but they ceased to be valid on 31/03/2012
https://www.witney.net/viewblog.asp?id=977

(the government changed the funding for concessionary travel at this point, moving the money to fund the schemes from districts to county councils)

always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline Figleaf

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #394 on: April 05, 2021, 08:54:33 PM »
I am sure there are more out there. We are holding a few in portfolio trying to get the permissions worked out and the contributor (now in hospital) back on his feet with sufficient energy to post them. Give it a bit of time.

The point is more and more whether the ones we are "discovering" (in a Chris Columbian sense) were actually used. The rise of the National Transport token series is one question mark. It is not clear which tokens they pushed out when. Privatisation is another factor and so is the use of paper and electronic cards. It is quite possible that new tokens had already been produced when the situation changed radically and they were suddenly no longer needed.

Good to know WoT is helpful to you. If you have any varieties or types you can add, please do so. If you need help, please let us know.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline agoodall

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #395 on: April 05, 2021, 09:27:02 PM »
Thanks andyg - it’s still not clear whether they were referring to tokens in the name of the council or NTT issues.

Peter - I’m intrigued - I hope he makes a speedy recovery (we are usually “he”s, aren’t we)! I hadn’t considered the idea that tokens might have been produced but never used. I doubt if it will ever be possible to catalogue the paper tokens - most councils seem to have issued them and almost all the examples I have were issued between 1970 and 1974 (probably due to a very dedicated collector or dealer at the time). As for the electronic cards that replaced some token issues, they’re essentially uncollectible. I’ve tried but have only been able to find a few examples. They are veering way off topic, so a few examples will suffice for me!

Offline andyg

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #396 on: April 05, 2021, 10:13:01 PM »
Thanks andyg - it’s still not clear whether they were referring to tokens in the name of the council or NTT issues.

Peter - I’m intrigued - I hope he makes a speedy recovery (we are usually “he”s, aren’t we)! I hadn’t considered the idea that tokens might have been produced but never used. I doubt if it will ever be possible to catalogue the paper tokens - most councils seem to have issued them and almost all the examples I have were issued between 1970 and 1974 (probably due to a very dedicated collector or dealer at the time). As for the electronic cards that replaced some token issues, they’re essentially uncollectible. I’ve tried but have only been able to find a few examples. They are veering way off topic, so a few examples will suffice for me!

With possibly two exceptions - the Sunderland issue in copper-nickel (souvenir) and I think a bronze 1p token from Plymouth (trial or test run) I'm pretty confident that all the tokens listed on WoT were used.

If you follow the acts of parliament then that goes some way to explain the issuance of the tokens,  it was only in the late 60's (?) that councils gained some responsibility to provide a concessionary fares scheme, this was delegated to the districts.  The next big change was LA reorganisation in 1974, so rural and urban district councils disappeared....

Concessionary schemes continued, but the rules were vary varied between local authorities - some, ie. Derbyshire had county schemes whilst others ie. Warwickshire were district based and had different passes to their neighbours.  Bridgnorth district (Shropshire) had for many years at least three different passes available.  In Cannock Chase district you could choose to have your pass in tokens instead of a pass, the tokens could then be used on Taxis as well as local bus.   Some local authorities issued National Transport Tokens instead of local tokens.  These little anomalies were partially cleared up when funding went from districts to counties in 2012, but even now some counties allow travel 24/7 on the passes whilst others only between 09.30 and 23.00.

National Transport tokens are still valid, I presume some counties still issue them....
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline Figleaf

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #397 on: April 16, 2021, 01:14:14 PM »
This is one of three tokens generally assumed to be the earliest UK transport tokens. All three have a similar mail coach obverse. The second is the same as the one shown here, except that the JF cypher is replaced by the date 1797 (two dies). The third has a reverse showing the cypher AFH in a palm branch wreath. This variant is shown on WoT. Dalton & Hamer says the initials are probably those of Anthony Francis Haldimand, merchant, at 51, St Mary Axe, London.

The three are presumable advertising tokens, where Haldimand and the unknown JF used similar obverse dies, but the objective to celebrate Mr. Palmer's mail coaches "for trade expedition and property projection" may be linked to what is now known as business travel and highway robbery.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 01:40:19 PM by Figleaf »
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Henk

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #398 on: April 18, 2021, 06:22:31 PM »
I have this sealed bag of National Transportation tokens. It contains 30 tokens with value of GBP 1 and 36 with a value of GBP 0.50. Hard to see what is inside. I was surprised to see a 2003 GBP 1 token with the Utrecht (NL) mintmarks on it!

Offline FosseWay

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #399 on: April 18, 2021, 08:27:59 PM »
Yes - there are two different £1 tokens, one with the Utrecht privy marks and one without - see below.

I have the one with no marks dated 2002 and 2003, and with Utrecht marks 2005. I see from the image above that the Utrecht one also exists for 2003; I don't know if either exists for other dates.

Offline andyg

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #400 on: April 18, 2021, 10:01:21 PM »
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline FosseWay

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #401 on: April 19, 2021, 06:52:45 AM »
 ;D Touché!

Offline agoodall

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #402 on: May 17, 2021, 01:45:30 PM »
I got a bit more information about the West Oxfordshire District Council £1 tokens from the person I got them from. He said he got them sometime between 2000 and 2005 and they were for use on buses and some taxi services. The reason he still had an unopened bag was because he had a car at the time and rarely needed to use public transport. Not that helpful pinning down the exact date of issue or the sequence (were the plastic tokens made before or after the National Transport tokens from the same council?). He said the tokens were replaced by paper bus passes.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #403 on: May 17, 2021, 04:28:18 PM »
As so often, witnesses are more helpful than reliable. The West Oxford District Council tokens were valid until end 2010 as taxi tokens (source) and until March 2012 as bus tokens (source)

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline agoodall

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Re: UK local transportation tokens
« Reply #404 on: May 26, 2021, 08:06:58 PM »
I’ve come across another UK transport token not previously mentioned as far as I can see.

Portsmouth City Council £1 orange, expiry date 31/03/2012

This is a year earlier than the blue-green £1 listed in World of Tokens.