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Coins that offend

Started by Rangnath, March 26, 2008, 04:12:23 PM

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Galapagos

#30
Quote from: BC Numismatics on September 25, 2008, 11:02:43 AM
Martin,
  I do have the Cook Islands 'doodle 5 Cents' as well,which is the F.A.O. & Millennium commemorative coin that came out back in 2000.They are stainless steel,& slightly smaller than the current New Zealand 50c. coin in terms of size.The design is the same as on the Cook Islands $1 coins,which still uses the Tangaroa carving reverse.

Aidan.
Aidan is right, Martin - the 5c is the same design, jsut on a smaller scale.

I own a biography of James Berry, and he was just a normal guy, not out to shock in any way. He took on the job of rendering Tangaroa in the late 1960s. Now, England in the 1960s, pop stars apart, was still rather prudish. After all, a lot of the adults had grown up in the 1930s or earlier. I can only imagine that NZ was similarly prudish at the time (correct me if I'm wrong), so Mr Berry will have known that a coin intended for the general public would be likely to attract controversy if it emphasised the male organ. That is probably why his first attempt was organ-less.

I remember the document in the National Archives precisely because of the amusing irony that, contrary to my expectation, and especially given those considerably more conservative times, Mr Berry was asked to tone UP (to coin a phrase) the rendition of the organ rather than tone it down.

Prosit

I have an example of the cook island penis coin (1973 Unc) in my crown collection...I think a modern version should be done with that pretty young queen's cheeks colored a bit red....I would buy it   ;D


I don't think I have any coins that would offend anyone in my collection....well I am sure there are many people who would be offended by the Nazi coins in my collection...I have a lot of medals that have nudity of some sort.. goddesses and the like.  I have never seen a coin token or medal that offended me.  Some of Goetz's medals have some shock vaule   :o

Dale

translateltd

Quote from: Galapagos on September 25, 2008, 07:56:34 PM
Aidan is right, Martin - the 5c is the same design, jsut on a smaller scale.

I own a biography of James Berry, and he was just a normal guy, not out to shock in any way. He took on the job of rendering Tangaroa in the late 1960s. Now, England in the 1960s, pop stars apart, was still rather prudish. After all, a lot of the adults had grown up in the 1930s or earlier. I can only imagine that NZ was similarly prudish at the time (correct me if I'm wrong), so Mr Berry will have known that a coin intended for the general public would be likely to attract controversy if it emphasised the male organ. That is probably why his first attempt was organ-less.

I remember the document in the National Archives precisely because of the amusing irony that, contrary to my expectation, and especially given those considerably more conservative times, Mr Berry was asked to tone UP (to coin a phrase) the rendition of the organ rather than tone it down.

I didn't see this exchange until today - so my apologies for coming into this again late.  I didn't think I had been discussing the design of the 5c - it was the trial of the dollar that I thought differed from the final version, though in the opposite direction to what you have found in the archive records, so I'll have to withdraw (excuse possible bad choice of words) here.

I am told by those who knew Berry that Reg Tye's biography of him is somewhat "sanitised", though I can't comment on specifics.



Figleaf

Princeton acquires coin with an image of Jesus from the 7th century
Matt Fair, Staff writer, Friday, December 04, 2009

PRINCETON BOROUGH -- It's not the kind of coin you'd want to plunk into a soda machine, nor is it the kind you'd find while digging around under your couch cushions.

It's a Byzantine gold coin from the seventh century with an image of Jesus Christ on its face, issued by Emperor Justinian II. It's the first known coin to have a Christ image, and it now has a new home in the Princeton University Numismatic Collection.

It's a high quality specimen that Alan Stahl, the university's curator of numismatics, said he had been seeking for several years, only to be outbid at auction again and again.

"Finally, a dealer with whom I'd placed a bid a couple of times found one in a private collection and offered it to us at a reasonable price."

The coin has been dated to the year 692.

While Stahl wouldn't disclose how much the university paid for the coin, a similar specimen sold at auction in Switzerland in May for about $25,000. Meanwhile, a California-based appraiser contacted yesterday said that some specimens can sell for as little as $3,000.

"My expectation was that we should be able to get a good example for about $5,000 and I was wrong by a considerable amount," Stahl said. "Let's just put it that way."

According to Stahl, the Princeton University's numismatic collection contains about 100,000 items and is reputed to be the oldest institutional collection in the country.

He said the gold coin was a specimen valuable not only in terms of the coinage of the eastern Mediterranean in the Middle Ages, but in the history of all coinage.

"The most important thing is that it's the first time the image of Christ is used as the main image on the coin," he said. Until this time, most coins had only featured portraits of the period's ruling emperor. In this case, Justinian II was cast on the reverse of the coin.

And while this may seem like a benign bit of imagery to us today, it sent shock waves across the region in its time.

"This was considered really shocking in its time, and it got reactions all over," he said.

The rise of Iconoclasm in Constantinople at the time, a movement which reviled the worship of images, provided a particularly virulent reaction against the coin, which was produced for only five years before Justinian II was overthrown in 695.

In the Islamic world, which has strict rules on the use of religious imagery, the coin caused a similar uproar.

"The Islamic world absolutely banned any living being from coins and that was the tradition in Islamic coinage for the next 1,000 years," Stahl said.

Source: nj.com
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Md. Shariful Islam

I hope that I am not going to create any noise. But these coins were not for offending originally. But later the punches of the coins offended.

The first two examples have punches on 'mim' of Muhammad. Most of the punches of Kalima type coins have punches on the side of 'Kalima' and especially on Muhammad (better not on iLlah).

The third one has punch on the side of Kalima where the punch is actually a symbol of Shivling.

Islam

Figleaf

Excellent examples, Tanka. I wonder if the punches were made unthinkingly (can't imagine, but who knows?) or with the objetive to offend...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Md. Shariful Islam

Thanks Peter, but read the following quote from the link provided below. Though I don't know the acceptance of the article but the author writes from observation and quotes another research findings.

"* On coins of secular legend, the 'shroff marks' are virtually always applied on the face of the coin bearing the ruler's laqab or titles of honour. On coins bearing the kalima, the 'shroff marks' are always placed on the kalima side of the coin. So they were applied by persons who were aware of the message content of the coins. They may have been placed by persons for whom the Muslim profession of faith engendered less respect than the royal titles......."

Readers may find the full article here


Islam

Coinsforever

Interesting article , thanks for posting.

Cheers ;D
Every experience, good or bad, is a priceless collector's item.



http://knowledge-numismatics.blogspot.in/

SquareEarth

#38
New Malaysia 10 sen circulation coin, 2012.


Add some Malay friends on facebook, and you would see how hugely unpopular Israel is among this people.
It is therefore rather unfortunate that when the Malaysian designer chose a six pointed star to represent the indigenous culture of the Mah Meri people (which indeed have the star in their weave patterns).

Many people mistaken it for a David Star even before conspiracy theorists start to exploit such coincidence.
Tong Bao_Tsuho_Tong Bo_Thong Bao

Ukrainii Pyat

Long before state of Israel was founded the six pointed star appeared on coins from Morocco in early 20th century.
Донецк Украина Donets'k Ukraine

Md. Shariful Islam

I shall not use the word unpopular. Instead hated. OK. About the six printed star. It is part of Muslim designs from much much earlier ages.

brandm24

I found this interesting article online and found it a bit unusual...and somewhat humorous too. It appeared in Coin World in December, 2014.
      https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/decoding-british-coins--is-a-political-message-hidden-in-plain-s.html

Bruce
Always Faithful

Figleaf

#42
The law of unintended consequences (a derivative of Murphy's law) strikes again. For another example, see Reply #3.

Peter

An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

brandm24

That's pretty much what I think about these types of coins. Many times there's too much read into it. They're just a product of someone's imagination.

Bruce
Always Faithful