Author Topic: Troubled coins  (Read 23161 times)

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Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #240 on: March 05, 2021, 09:29:27 PM »
I was looking hard into the reason for the R counterstamped coins and came up with some interesting information.

The picture below is of a mural painted on the gate leading into the Republican Plot at St. Finbarr's Cemetery in Cork, Ireland. The phrase Ogaligh Na hEireann means "Soldiers (or Warriors) of Ireland" which has been used often by Nationalist paramilitaries as either a name (ONH) or slogan in their logo or badge. Assigning it to anyone group is difficult as even the Irish Defence Forces were known by that name.

One such paramilitary named themselves Ogaligh Na hEireann but were known as ONH. Interestingly, they were a splinter group of RIRA (about 2009?). Other Nationalist organizations that used the phrase in some way included not only RIRA, but also INLA and CIRA.

The interesting part of the mural is of course the letter R in the center. The picture was taken from the cover of a 2011 book titled "Dissedent Irish Republicanism." The phrase "It's not over yet" has been associated with RIRA and ex Provisional IRA members in Belfast and South Armagh, and refers to the armed struggle continuing.

Given this evidence, a possible link to RIRA can be seriously considered.

Bruce
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Offline CTX3030

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #241 on: March 05, 2021, 10:16:16 PM »
Bruce, that is fantastic research. Thank you and well done.

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #242 on: March 07, 2021, 12:36:16 AM »
I have seen dozens of reports from collectors about R stamped coins having been found in circulation on the collectors groups on social media over the last 5 years. At a guess, maybe even 100. There appear to be many in circulation, most on somewhat older coins (not much from the last decade). They are widely believed to be related to RIRA but whether that is also correct, I do not know.
Would it be possible to link to any of the social media discussions you've come across? I'd be interested in checking them out. Also, when you say many of the coins are older but not from the last decade, are you talking about these coins dating from the 2000's or 2010's? I'd like to get a better handle on the time period they were stamped. Many thanks, eurocoin. :)

Bruce
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Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #243 on: March 07, 2021, 07:00:13 PM »
While researching R stamps further, I came across this street scene mural in the Bogside, Derry. Interesting that the R is spaced from IRA by a stop. I now feel that the R stamps were seeing can be credited to the RIRA organization.

Bruce
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Offline eurocoin

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #244 on: March 07, 2021, 08:19:55 PM »
Would it be possible to link to any of the social media discussions you've come across? I'd be interested in checking them out.

Unfortunately this is not feasible at present, but I will get back on it when it is to look at this mark in full.

Quote
Also, when you say many of the coins are older but not from the last decade, are you talking about these coins dating from the 2000's or 2010's? I'd like to get a better handle on the time period they were stamped. Many thanks, eurocoin. :)

If I am not mistaking most of the ones I have seen date from the period 1997-2010. It appears the stamp is only on 2 pound coins, although there exists a 20p with a very similar stamp that may possibly be related too. Though I have never made a list or an overview of all pieces found and their dates, so this is just from memory.

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #245 on: March 08, 2021, 01:23:20 AM »
Thanks, eurocoin. Knowing the dates helps a lot.

Bruce
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Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #246 on: March 13, 2021, 11:27:11 PM »
In 1976 the British Government withdrew the special category status of prisoners serving time for Troubles related crimes. They were then considered common criminals and no longer prisoners of war. The IRA and INLA inmates resented the change as they didn't consider themselves criminals but "prisoners of war" or "freedom fighters."

Though it seemed an unimportant change in status, it had in fact real symbolic and practical consequences. These included free association with other prisoners, the right not to wear prison clothing or do prison work, the right to one letter, one visit, and one package per week, and other points. Many protests and actions followed over the next five years and were based on what was known as the Five Demands.

All actions failed to move the government of British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher who refused any negotiations on prisoner demands. The stalemate finally culminated in the March 1, 1981 hunger strike in the H-Blocks at Long Kesh Prison which saw the eventual death of seven IRA and three INLA prisoners.

Many counterstamped coins were issued in regard to the hunger strike and its participants. This is one of them. I acquired this 1976 British 10p "IRA / Thatcher" in 2017 from a Wiltshire collector. He discovered it in a job lot several years earlier.

Bruce
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Offline CTX3030

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #247 on: March 14, 2021, 12:37:29 AM »
Interesting coin Bruce. The neat alignment of the THATCHER stamp is impressive.

Offline CTX3030

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #248 on: March 15, 2021, 05:48:47 PM »
Another from a lifelong collector in the Republic of Ireland.

1969 Eire 10p.

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #249 on: March 15, 2021, 08:19:12 PM »
You've found a reliable source, CTX. All you've shown so far are legitimate.

Bruce
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Offline CTX3030

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #250 on: March 16, 2021, 11:56:24 AM »
This was from a different source.

1959 Eire florin, countermark ULSTER VANGUARD

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #251 on: March 16, 2021, 07:00:20 PM »
Vanguard was the only issuer that I know of who used a prepared punch on many of their coins. Most others are haphazard and struck with individual punches. I do have an old IRA stamp or two that may be from a gang punch but I can't be sure.

Ulster / Vanguard stamps are rare. I've only seen a couple and this is a nice example.I know your source for this one. :)

Bruce
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #252 on: March 16, 2021, 09:46:07 PM »
Even though it is a single punch, Connor O'Hammer managed to put it whole on the fish, as we saw on other coins. Also, poor Brian Boru's harp is hemmed in by Ulster and Vanguard.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #253 on: March 16, 2021, 10:25:47 PM »
I should have said two prepared punches...Ulster and Vanguard are seperate prepared punches as shown by the different positions of each on either side.

I always wondered what Mr. O'Hammer's first name was. :)

Bruce
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Offline CTX3030

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #254 on: March 23, 2021, 02:14:35 PM »
My latest find. Came from an auction in Dublin.

Eire 1962 florin. Countermark UDA

Edit: Previous owner obtained it whilst working in Belfast in the 1970’s.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 01:27:01 PM by CTX3030 »