Author Topic: Troubled coins  (Read 22837 times)

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Offline malj1

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #210 on: February 12, 2021, 04:57:35 AM »
this may be Indian inkl as it was an early practice of museums to mark their coins etc in Indian ink.

Here is a typical example  G1294 in the British Museums Montague Guest collection acquired in 1907.
Malcolm
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Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #211 on: February 12, 2021, 01:35:51 PM »
Sounds like a good possibility. It's hard to believe that some museums and private collectors damaged their coins by marking them like this. I see a collector's counterstamp on a coin that was in his cabinet once in awhile. I don't think anyone does it today, but it wasn't unusual in the 1800's.

Bruce
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Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #212 on: February 14, 2021, 01:50:10 PM »
It was troubling to see this IRA counterstamp offered on eBay Australia. While the stamp is common, the date, 2016 (British pound), is not. The latest dated coin I've seen previously stamped IRA is 1998. This makes sense as after the signing of the Good Friday Agreement that year paramilitary activity declined dramatically. If this signals a resurgence back to pre-peace accord activity then it's a serious blow to peace.

What's odd about this is that the IRA, except their political arm Sinn Fein, has been inactive for years. Though there's likely a dormant structure and command system still in place, it's been silent. By all accounts they're committed to peace by wielding their political muscle. They've been very effective in doing so.

This leads me to believe this may actually be the work of RIRA (Real Irish Republican Army), a violent offshoot of the IRA who opposed the peace accords or any other accomodation with the British Government. After a period of  extreme violence they became inactive due to structural problems, and in 2011 were described by the Independent Monitoring Commission (IMC) as having "gone out of business as a paramilitary group."

To reverse their fortunes, a merger took place in 2011 with several smaller Republican paramilitaries including ONH and the anti-drug group RAAD. This reorganization was tagged as the New IRA by the news media but they never took the name. Believing to be the legitimate Irish Republican Army they  used the traditional title IRA. To solidify this "take over" the group adopted the original IRA constitution as their own. From that day forward the re-energized group has committed numerous acts of terror, including bombings, assassinations, punishment shootings, and more.

My belief that this is actually an issue of the re-organized IRA lies in the fact that the originals haven't issued counterstamped coins since before 2000 that I'm aware of. The old RIRA organization was actively engaged in issuing this type of propaganda ever since their founding in 1998. Even the look of this stamp...heavy strike across the Queen's portrait..., and the choice of a British pound coin, speaks of RIRA origin. A large majority of RIRA stamps are applied to British pound coins, probably 90%.

Bruce



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Offline CTX3030

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #213 on: February 14, 2021, 02:51:51 PM »
Interesting coin. Although dated 2016 the design was released in March 2017 which was after the 2016 Brexit referendum and the UK decision to leave the EU. There was a lot of uncertainty about what would happen with the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, as it would become a UK/EU border.

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #214 on: February 14, 2021, 06:23:30 PM »
The hard border is a real concern as it should be. I just hope this coin isn't a look into the future.

The seller is American or at least lives here. He claims to have received the coin in change while in Northern Ireland, so maybe he actually lives there but ships through a US address. I plan on contacting him when the time is appropriate and see if he has any other information about it.

Thanks for the timeline on the date these coins were released. It helps in trying to determine when this one was counterstamped.

Bruce
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Offline CTX3030

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #215 on: February 14, 2021, 07:02:45 PM »
Introduced 28 March 2017.
The older round pound coins remained legal tender until 15 October 2017.

Offline CTX3030

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #216 on: February 14, 2021, 07:44:25 PM »
My first and thus far only, IRA countermarked coin arrived in the mail yesterday from a life long coin collector in the Republic of Ireland.

It is a 1956 UK 2 shillings. The countermark has a punchmark (period) before the lettering, and the lettering descends from left to right.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 09:06:06 PM by CTX3030 »

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #217 on: February 14, 2021, 09:57:18 PM »
A good example, CTX. Other than the UVF, the IRA stamped more coins than any group.

Bruce
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Offline FosseWay

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #218 on: February 15, 2021, 07:28:35 AM »
Speaking of the UVF, this is the only Troubles-related counterstamp I have. Found somewhat unexpectedly in a job lot of world coins sourced in Sweden.

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #219 on: February 15, 2021, 12:11:03 PM »
A typical look for a UVF coin...initials struck across the salmon's body. I'll bet you a cup of coffee or an adult beverage of your choice if it's a 1969 10p. :)

Bruce
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Offline FosseWay

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #220 on: February 15, 2021, 01:49:07 PM »
It is indeed  ;D

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #221 on: February 15, 2021, 05:39:44 PM »
A pretty safe bet. The 1969 10p is the most common coin stamped followed by the Irish Florin and the British 10p...same date. I thought about betting the house on it, but if I lost you'd be living in New Jersey and I'd be in a cardboard box next door. I wouldn't mind much but the wife would be furious... no sense of adventure you see. ;D

Bruce
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Offline CTX3030

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #222 on: February 19, 2021, 04:32:59 PM »
These three arrived in the mail today. They were sent unseen on approval and I didn’t know what to expect until I opened the envelope.

1933 1d UVF
1963 shilling KAI.
1964 shilling UVF


Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #223 on: February 19, 2021, 06:33:46 PM »
By the pictures they look authentic, but it's always best to see them in-hand.The KAI stamp is rare. I've only recorded four examples in my census.

 BTW, KAI means "Kill All Irishmen." Hardcore Unionists don't consider themselver Irishmen but describe themselves as Ulstermen, a distinction they make between themselves and "Southern Irish" persons.

KAI was also a violent Loyalist youth gang that roamed the Rathcoole Estate in Co. Antrim in the 1970's. They were a member of the loosely organized Tartan Gangs.

Bruce
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Offline CTX3030

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #224 on: February 19, 2021, 08:24:08 PM »
Hi Bruce, thank you for your comments.

Receiving the coins on approval gave me the opportunity to examine them before paying.