Author Topic: Troubled coins  (Read 23156 times)

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Offline bagerap

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #180 on: January 31, 2021, 04:40:53 PM »
Modest correction, E.R. = Elizabeth Regina

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #181 on: January 31, 2021, 06:42:21 PM »
Thanks, bagerap, that's what I have in my notes. I had a temporary brain freeze when I posted. :)

Bruce
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Offline CTX3030

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #182 on: February 02, 2021, 01:26:28 PM »
I spotted this countermarked 1928 Irish shilling in a small collection of Irish pre-decimal, decimal, and Euro coins. It was the only coin with a countermark, and the seller agreed to sell it separate from the remaining coins.

The G.F countermark appears to be the same as that on Figleaf’s Irish florin in reply #8 and on brandm24’s 1940 dated Irish shilling in reply #20.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #183 on: February 02, 2021, 02:07:19 PM »
Yup, that's the third with a missing second dot and applied on a relatively older coin. It lends more authenticity to the other two, but doesn't bring the solution to the significance of the letters any nearer.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #184 on: February 02, 2021, 02:50:55 PM »
I saw that one but couldn't get a good view of it. I don't suppose the owner knew the meaning of it.

I'm really intrigued by it and have asked around to see if any of my friends recognize the stamp. The prevailing thought seems to be that it's political in nature, but so far noone can decipher it. One thing is sure, all were probably stamped by the same person or group as they're all struck by the same punch.

Bruce
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Offline CTX3030

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #185 on: February 02, 2021, 04:26:12 PM »
No, the seller doesn’t know the meaning of G.F

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #186 on: February 05, 2021, 02:40:24 PM »
Again, this doesn't solve the mystery behind the meaning of the stamp, but provides another example. This is on a 1929 British Florin. The first non-Irish coin so far.

Including this new one, we now have coins dated 1928, 1929, 1940, and Peter's coin that we don't know the date of. Some reference to Irish Independence maybe?

Bruce
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 05:53:01 PM by brandm24 »
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #187 on: February 05, 2021, 03:45:07 PM »
The first non-Irish coin so far.

That type of coin circulated in Ireland as it was still part of the United Kingdom.

Peter
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Offline FosseWay

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #188 on: February 05, 2021, 03:51:46 PM »
That type of coin circulated in Ireland as it was still part of the United Kingdom.

Peter

Ireland wasn't part of the UK in 1929. But UK coinage circulated exclusively in Ireland until 1928, when the Barnyard series was first produced. Thereafter there was considerable exchange in both directions for those denominations that were the same size in both countries (i.e. all but the 3d until decimalisation).

Offline CTX3030

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #189 on: February 05, 2021, 06:28:40 PM »
Interesting. The stamp appears to be the same on all four G.F marked coins. Maybe all were stamped with the same punch, some struck more heavily than others.

Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #190 on: February 05, 2021, 06:44:08 PM »
Yes, the same punch for sure. If the pieces were hammer-struck then the quaiity would probably vary. Each blow would be slightly heavier or lighter which would effect the resulting image. You shouldn't have that problem on coins struck on a press. These are probably hammer-struck.

Bruce
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Offline malj1

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #191 on: February 05, 2021, 09:18:45 PM »
Ireland wasn't part of the UK in 1929. But UK coinage circulated exclusively in Ireland until 1928, when the Barnyard series was first produced. Thereafter there was considerable exchange in both directions for those denominations that were the same size in both countries (i.e. all but the 3d until decimalisation).

Would not the British coins still circulate north of the border? I.E. Northern Ireland.

BTW there is an Aussie expression starting with G.F that seems to be used frequently.
Malcolm
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Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #192 on: February 06, 2021, 12:36:56 AM »
British coins always circulated in Ireland even afterl Home Rule and the creation of the Irish Free State. They continued circulating there until the Irish Republic was formed in 1928 and the introduction of their own coinage (Barnyard series as noted by FosseWay) Northern Ireland, the six counties that joined the UK, always used British coins and currency. There was never any Nothern Irish coinage.

The new Irish (Eire) coinage in turn commonly circulated in Northern ireland much to the chagrin of Unionists. It was considered foreign money...which it was..and often described as "pig money" because of the sow  and piglets portrayed on the Irish penny. It wasn't accepted by many merchants.

Bruce
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Offline brandm24

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #193 on: February 06, 2021, 12:39:43 AM »

BTW there is an Aussie expression starting with G.F that seems to be used frequently.
I'm afraid to ask, Mal.  ;D

Bruce
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Offline Figleaf

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Re: Troubled coins
« Reply #194 on: February 06, 2021, 08:57:58 AM »
British coins always circulated in Ireland even afterl Home Rule and the creation of the Irish Free State. They continued circulating there until the Irish Republic was formed in 1928 and the introduction of their own coinage (Barnyard series as noted by FosseWay)

It is slightly more complicated. At independence, the Irish punt was defined the same way as the British pound. There was no currency union between the two, but they could be exchanged at par. As a consequence, the two currencies mixed freely, in the Republic as well as in Northern Ireland. This was a convenience to both sides until the Troubles started in 1968.

The Troubles led to political action to separate the two currencies. In Ireland, the word bog is historically loaded, as it may refer to large scale slaughter during the time a majority of the Irish sided with the Stuarts against the king of the house of Orange, making it a point of contention on the level of the battle of the Boyne, in which the Stuarts were decisively defeated. Protestant Irish used the word bog to demean Catholic Irish, as in BBB, standing for Ban Bog Butter*, which could be explained as "do not use the money of the Republic".

It didn't work out. The two currencies still mixed in the border area and Irish coins kept popping up in Belfast, leading to the counterstamps shown in this thread. The original objective of the counterstamps was to have the Irish coins withdrawn as "damaged", causing a loss to the Republic, though it was OK too if the counterstamped coins would continue to circulate with the counterstamp.

The two currencies finally drifted apart in 1978, well after decimalisation, when the Republic joined the European Monetary System (EMS). Coins of the Republic quickly became worth slightly less than British coins. This is reflected in the coins issued afterwards, none were on the British standard. The separation was solidified by the introduction of euro coins.

Peter

* There is actually such a thing as bog butter. It is butter made by the traditional method of burying in peat bog. Bog butter was also used as money.
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.