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Coins that offend

Started by Rangnath, March 26, 2008, 04:12:23 PM

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Rangnath

thanks Peter! I looked up "order of the elephants"; the Coat of arms of Frederick IV of Denmark shows very curvy elephant like trunks.  Not a pig in sight!

I'd like to see someone put together a series called "Coins that offend".  We've named two in this thread, but there must be a long list.  In fact, the list might be too long, so maybe the series should be restricted to religious offence as was the case with the pigs and cross.
And I don't mean to say that I WANT to give offence. Only that I would be interested in seeing what has proven to be controversial in history. 
richie

Figleaf

#1
The "godless florin" immediately comes to mind. Wasn't there a case of a missing god on a recent American coin also? ;) Then there was a Danish coin with (from memory) door handles shaped like genitals, the Mexican coin that wished death upon its president, the French coin that showed the king as cuckolded, the South African coin that called the president an ox, there must be more.

It's more difficult to come up with coins that should have given offense but didn't. There's the Italian coin that showed the wrong borders of Germany, the Mexican coin with the goddess hacked to pieces ...

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Rangnath

Those are great examples Peter. I'd love to see them!
The coin with the offensive door handles reminds me of Florida.  In a "news" entertainment show on TV, attention was brought to two "facts" and related them: the state's delegates are highly sought after by Hillary Clinton and the shape of the state is considerably phallic.

richie

Figleaf

#3
Here's the Louis d'or à la corne from this site. Modern numismatists have decided that the little horn in the king's hair was a die crack, but contemporaries blamed the engraver and the mintmaster for criticizing the king. Or the queen. Or both. The poor mint officials were ruined by the (relatively mild) judgement that they should pay for the cost of withdrawing the coin from circulation. Of course, knowing that the coin was offensive spared quite a few from the melting pot, but it's still too expensive for mere coin collectors.

A far less likely, but more interesting explanation is that the Cardinal de Rohan bought a minter to change the die in order to show the horn so that he could take revenge for being hilariously duped in the juicy Affair of the Diamond Neckless. This is an embellishment to a great story that doesn't need it.

The horns were proverbial symbols for being cuckolded, which was all the more painful because Marie Antoinette was a ... uhhh ... lively lady, while Louis' main interest was mounting locks in doors. Versailles still has a number of doors with several locks, put in there by his majesty personally.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Figleaf

#4
In 1914, Mexico was once again at war with itself. Rebels loyal to Pancho Villa made headway and both sides committed gross atrocities. In Cuencame, Durango, General Calixto Contreras, commander of the Northern army ordered silver pesos struck of the normal type, but with "Muera Huerta" (death to president Huerta) under the eagle. The president didn't appreciate this and put the death penalty on possessing the coin.

Source: Numismatische Trivia

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Figleaf

From 1888, "Uncle Paul" Kruger became less and less popular. He was simultaneously fighting the British from the Cape colony, British settlers in Transvaal (uitlanders), Cecil Rhodes and his sidekick Jameson. In order to turn the tide, he had become interested in creating a Transvaal currency. German sales reps were going around in Transvaal, giving free samples to the influential (they're called "patterns" today). Kruger regarded Germany as the natural counterweight of "perfidious Albion". In the end, the order went to the Berlin mint.

Designer and engraver of the coins was the Berlin mint's Otto Schulz. He was, among others, responsible for the imperial eagle on German imperial coins, so he was the natural choice for creating the new Transvaal coins. However, Schulz made two bad mistakes. First, he had added his initials on the president's portrait. Quite natural, except that OS in Afrikaans means ox. Kruger's political opponents had great fun pointing this out. The coins were withdrawn, but so popular that today, the variety with initials is slightly easier to find than the subsequent version.

Schulz's other mistake? Making the wheels on the voortrekkerswagen of equal size. That's correct for a German cart, but in South Africa the hind wheels were considerably larger. Kruger's opponents claimed the president was unaware even of how the indigenous carts looked like.

Kruger nevertheless won the elections and led Transvaal into a war that would end its existence.

Source: Numismatische trivia

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Rangnath

Bravo Peter.  Huerta didn't have a sense of humor, did he?  And I love that OX!  ;D
richie

chrisild

Quote from: Figleaf on March 26, 2008, 08:57:52 PM
The coins were withdrawn, but so popular that today, the variety with initials is slightly easier to find than the subsequent version.
The Berlin mint even made some Krügerrand pieces with that signature in 2006. :)
http://www.muenzenmagazin.de/startseite0602/img/kruegerrand_160.jpg
http://www.muenzenmagazin.de/startseite0602/img/kruegerrand_ausschnitt_160.jpg

Then there is the story about the 5 DM coin that was to be issued when Saarland became a state of the Federal Republic of Germany in 1958. The coin was supposed to show the Abbey Tower in Mettlach. Twelve artists were invited to the design competition, there were discussions about how the coin should be dated (various suggestions from 1956 to 1959). Finally, in March '59, the federal government decided to cancel the plan. The official reason was that "too many" commems were issued. Huh? Precisely five in the first 15 (!) years of the Republic. Another possible - but never officially mentioned - reason was that the government dropped the plans in order to not alienate the French government.

Se non è vero, è ben trovato ...

Christian

BC Numismatics

Quote from: chrisild on March 27, 2008, 07:12:39 PM
The Berlin mint even made some Krügerrand pieces with that signature in 2006. :)
http://www.muenzenmagazin.de/startseite0602/img/kruegerrand_160.jpg
http://www.muenzenmagazin.de/startseite0602/img/kruegerrand_ausschnitt_160.jpg

Then there is the story about the 5 DM coin that was to be issued when Saarland became a state of the Federal Republic of Germany in 1958. The coin was supposed to show the Abbey Tower in Mettlach. Twelve artists were invited to the design competition, there were discussions about how the coin should be dated (various suggestions from 1956 to 1959). Finally, in March '59, the federal government decided to cancel the plan. The official reason was that "too many" commems were issued. Huh? Precisely five in the first 15 (!) years of the Republic. Another possible - but never officially mentioned - reason was that the government dropped the plans in order to not alienate the French government.

Se non è vero, è ben trovato ...

Christian

Christian,
  I didn't know that the Berlin Mint was contracted to strike Krugerrands.Please tell us more about this.

Aidan.

chrisild

Quote from: BC Numismatics on March 27, 2008, 07:19:25 PM
I didn't know that the Berlin Mint was contracted to strike Krugerrands.Please tell us more about this.
In general they don't :) - that was a one-time exception. On the occasion of the 2006 World Money Fair, the South African Mint authorized the Berlin Mint to make a few (1200 only) 1 oz Krügerrand coins with the mint's logo - a crown above the head of a bear - and Schultz's initials. Here are some links in German; the last two are media releases in PDF format.
http://www.muenzenmagazin.de/startseite0602/Kruegerrand.htm
http://www.muenze-berlin.de/shop/download?mediaId=34564
http://www.muenze-berlin.de/shop/download?mediaId=34565

One of them also has some info about the "O.S = ox" story and those wheel sizes ...

Christian

Figleaf

Thanks, Christian. I also appreciated the info on Schulz's other work and learned about the reason for having a new eagle in 1888.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Figleaf

#11
Here's the godless florin. Before the French revolution, there was a socio-religious dogma that nobility had their station by the grace of god (dei gratia). This was an important element in the alliance between nobility and the church. They defended each other against the third estate. The church postulated the superiority of god, whose wrath would be invoked by disobedience. Nobility meted out the wrath. The church was under god's protection so it could not be attacked. Nobility was chosen by god, so it could not be attacked either.

The French revolution was anti-aristocracy, therefore anti-clerical. It denied that noblemen were appointed by god and used church bells for coins. The French revolution led to the terror, the first empire. and the Napoleonic wars, that brought Britain to the edge of disaster. Britain and the US therefore turned virulently anti-revolutionary. In that climate, neither the good, nor the bad inventions of the revolution had a chance to succeed there. While the rest of the world turned metric, Britain and the US did not. Neither country put numerical denominations on its coins (the US still doesn't) and the British kept "dei gratia", although in the course of time it lost all meaning. Taking it off the coins wasn't more than a really slight modernization. There's no evidence that it was controversial until the coin was issued and even then, it was a cause only for religious extremists. However, her majesty's loyal opposition grabbed the issue as a chance to prove the ineptness of the government. It didn't help them in the short run, but dei gratia was reinstated.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Figleaf

This pretty ghastly Mexican 50 pesos coin (first picture) shows the goddess Coyolxauhqui. She was the mother of the Aztec answer to Zeus, Huitzilopochtli. This god was born armed and in full harness (must have been uncomfortable for the poor woman in the first place). Immediately after birth, Huitzilopochtli hacked Coyolxauhqui to pieces (definitely an ungrateful type) and threw her off a mountain.

During excavations at the Templo Mayor in Mexico city (originally the temple of Huitzilopochtli and Tlaloc, the rain god) a giant table top was found (second picture) with Coyolxauhqui as jig-saw puzzle. This pretty picture was used for the coin.

I think the design should have been controversial, but it wasn't. I blame Hollywood. :-\

Source: Numismatic trivia

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

translateltd

I once owned one of those 50 peso coins without ever knowing what the design was supposed to be!


chrisild

Quote from: Figleaf on March 26, 2008, 05:35:36 PM
There's the Italian coin that showed the wrong borders of Germany
Now that one, issued in 1997, was not offensive (neither intended nor understood to be) but rather a "duh" piece. Seems the Italian mint did know that the Federal Republic of Germany had become a little larger - except that they merged West Germany and the Netherlands, instead of the FRG and the GDR. That was quickly fixed though, and the later pieces (starting in '97) have the right lines.

Then there was the Slovenian 2 cent coin depicting the Prince's Stone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince%27s_Stone which the governor of the Austrian state of Carinthia found offensive. He tried to cause a stir, then again that governor is a controversial figure anyway. ;D As a reaction to the stone being depicted on the piece from Slovenia, he ordered the stone to be moved from a museum in Klagenfurt (capital of Carinthia) to a prominent place in the state parliament.

Christian