H & KN pennies

[capnbirdseye]

I've got a pile of these pennies,mostly 1912H, but a couple of 1881H & 1882H some 1918 & 1919 H & KN, I lived in kings Norton as a child & Ralph Heatons works was in the nearby district. I actually collected them in change in the early 60's mostly off the bus conductors, coins going right back to 1860 were still in general circulation right up to decimalisation. Occasionally Victorian coins in VF or EF used to turn up in change, I even had an EF Gothic florin given in change  presumably because someone found it under the floorboards & went out & spent it!

[Prosit]

I don't have the 1881-H or 1882 H.  Did both years have a No-H or just 1881?

I do have the 1912-H and I have the 1918-H and 1918-KN

I don't have the 1919-H or KN.

They are on my list and I will get examples eventually.
Dale

[capnbirdseye]

here's 1881 & 1882 with H

[andyg]

Those coins really were the workhorse of the British series - nice condition coins are hard to find.  I can remember finding 1947 shillings as 5p and 10p but I missed out finding those

[villa66]

Maybe someone who has seen a lot of these coins can tell me if there was some difference between the alloy of the 1912H penny and that of the 1912? To me it seems that the typical 1912H comes much darker than the typical 1912. Does that observation hold up, or is it just my too-small sample giving me a wrong impression?

v.

[Prosit]

Please ignore the below, it is late and I am tired and I looked in the wrong group of Pennies. English Pennies, Canadian Cents...what the difference 

I do have both and they are about the same color....maybe the H is some darker but in hand they look pretty close.
Dale


Oops!  I have the 1912 but not the 1912-H so I can't look.  Think I better check my list for other errors.
Dale

Maybe someone who has seen a lot of these coins can tell me if there was some difference between the alloy of the 1912H penny and that of the 1912? To me it seems that the typical 1912H comes much darker than the typical 1912. Does that observation hold up, or is it just my too-small sample giving me a wrong impression?

v.

[FosseWay]

I don't have the 1881-H or 1882 H.  Did both years have a No-H or just 1881?

To all intents and purposes, only 1882H exists. Seaby says 'extremely rare' and declines to give a value for 1882 with no H. I don't know how many were minted or whether they were a trial, error, should have been remelted or what. I certainly don't have one!

Yes, it would have been good from the collecting POV to have been 15-20 years older than I am. But notwithstanding that, I did pull from circulation not just post-1947 shillings and florins but also the odd silver one.

[capnbirdseye]

Maybe someone who has seen a lot of these coins can tell me if there was some difference between the alloy of the 1912H penny and that of the 1912? To me it seems that the typical 1912H comes much darker than the typical 1912. Does that observation hold up, or is it just my too-small sample giving me a wrong impression?

v.

My 1918 & 1919 H & KN pennies do indeed look more coppery, must be a different alloy used by the contractors

[villa66]

My 1918 & 1919 H & KN pennies do indeed look more coppery, must be a different alloy used by the contractors

Thanks! And to Prosit too, for the pictures of the 1912 and 1912H.

v.

[FosseWay]

There's quite a variation in colour among my Victorian, Edwardian and first issue George V pennies, regardless of date or mintmark. As mine are universally of the kind of condition illustrated upthread or, mostly, worse, I'd presumed that such variations were due to whatever the coins have met during their busy lives. But variations in alloy are as good an explanation as any.

[Figleaf]

Cant find my source now, but I seem to remember having read somewhere (Feavearyear, maybe?) that in Victorian times, bronzes were darkened at the mint. I think I remember that the reason was so that new, shiny coins wouldn't be taken for gold in bad light. Sorry for vagueness.

Peter

[FosseWay]

Cant find my source now, but I seem to remember having read somewhere (Feavearyear, maybe?) that in Victorian times, bronzes were darkened at the mint. I think I remember that the reason was so that new, shiny coins wouldn't be taken for gold in bad light. Sorry for vagueness.

Farthings were artificially darkened from 1897 to 1918 for the reason you give. The problem was specific to the farthing because of the similarity in size between it and the half-sovereign. I presume it was decided that the difference in size between full sovereigns and halfpennies was enough for it to be unlikely that many people would be fooled. The darkening stopped in 1918 when gold coins fell out of use. I guess the start date -- two years after the introduction of the veiled head on Victorian bronze -- reflects the rise of a fraud problem in 1895/6. Previous farthings had carried the bun head, which never featured on any gold coins, whereas the veiled head was used on all of Victoria's coins from the mid-90s on.

[moneyer12]

2 months ago i bought 10 kn pennies from 1918 and 1919 for the princely sum of £2, i have since shifted some on ebay for £20 each in ef........

[tonyclayton]

There's quite a variation in colour among my Victorian, Edwardian and first issue George V pennies, regardless of date or mintmark. As mine are universally of the kind of condition illustrated upthread or, mostly, worse, I'd presumed that such variations were due to whatever the coins have met during their busy lives. But variations in alloy are as good an explanation as any.

Oxidation of what were basically identical alloys is affected by trace elements present.  Royal Mint blanks tend to darken to give a blackish patination, while blanks made by the Kings Norton Metal Co. tend to give a tan coloured patina. The latter company produced blanks for the Royal Mint at times which is why some RM pennies also show that tan colour.  In my experience H mint coins of 1912, 18 and 19 are almost universally blackish.