World of Coins

Modern Asian coins, pseudo coins and trade tokens => Indian subcontinent: Mughal, Princely states and colonial (1526-1947) => Mughal central government => Topic started by: asm on February 07, 2011, 11:56:39 AM

Title: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: asm on February 07, 2011, 11:56:39 AM
I was told that this is the first issue in the name of Shah Jahan minted at Ahmedabad. AH 1037, RY 1 instead of Ahd as is normal on most Mughal coins. Another difference, I was told, is that for this type, coins have legend in 4 lines and the AH date is written out in the last line while this coin has the legend in 3 lines and the date is in the central line.

Please help.
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY 1
Post by: asm on February 07, 2011, 12:32:43 PM
Further to the post above, I saw Oesho's coin at Zeno (http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=56590). I can see the Ahd on my coin clearly now. From the coins on Zeno, I see that there were a lot of variations i the coins of the first year from Ahmedabad mint.

Amit
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY 1
Post by: Coinsforever on February 07, 2011, 02:30:24 PM
Nice acquisition asm , coin is  with  clear calligraphy & deeply struck.

Cheers ;D
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY 1
Post by: Rangnath on February 16, 2011, 12:39:18 AM
Nice coin Amit!  Your link to Jan Lingen's coin (which seems in incredible condition!) reveals an error in the heads and tails of the coin that you posted. Now that I've returned to WOC, I feel duty bound to point this out, despite the pain this causes me.  :'(   
I recently read a book called "The Feast of Roses" by Indu Sundaresan.  It centers on Begum Nur Jahan and Jahangir but Shah Jahan and his Arjumand Banu Begum played significant roles. The coin brings that book to mind. The ry of 1 recalls just how exciting that transition was from Jahangir to Shah Jahan. 
richie
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY 1
Post by: asm on February 16, 2011, 01:50:41 AM
.......Your link to Jan Lingen's coin (which seems in incredible condition!) reveals an error in the heads and tails of the coin that you posted.

Thanks richie.......You live and you learn. I first posted the coin here (before I saw the Zeno coin) and saw the Kings name (Obverse) and the mint (reverse). I missed the Kalima which would have made the reverse obverse and the obverse reverse......  (will add the corrected picture in due course)

Amit
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: Oesho on February 16, 2011, 06:05:07 PM
The coins of Shah Jahan of the first few years of his reign show a large number of different legend arrangements. The use of year 1 as numeral, but more often as Ahd. Some coins bear besides the Hijri date also the Ilahi month. Just showing the bewildering variety, see for instance the coins of Shah Jahan of Akbarabad mint on ZENO.
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: asm on May 14, 2011, 07:16:31 AM
The coins of Shah Jahan of the first few years of his reign show a large number of different legend arrangements. .............. Some coins bear besides the Hijri date also the Ilahi month.

Just to prove the point: Another product of the Ahmedabad mint. AH (10)40. Month: Ardibihist(?). Did these coins have a RY?
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: asm on May 14, 2011, 07:21:38 AM
If my reading (and it is just reading the picture and not the letters) is correct, the first coin seems to have the Sahib Qiran legend while this one has Badshah Gazi legend. Am I correct?

Amit
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: asm on May 21, 2011, 03:23:24 AM
I have replaced the image. Is my reading of the date, Month and the legend correct?

Amit
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: Oesho on May 21, 2011, 04:40:21 PM
Hi Amit, The legend on both coins is actually the same, but only differently arranged.
On the first coin (AH1037/Ry.Ahd) the legend reads from bottom to top:
shihab al-din / muhammad/ sahib qiran sani / shah jahan bad shah, sanah ahd / ghazi
On the second coin the legend reads:
sahib qiran sani / shihab al-din / muhammad / shah jahan, 1040 / bad shah ghazi
On the reverse the Kalima with the Ilahi month, Ardibihisht (Zodiac month Taurus), below.
The Ry. is to the left of Ilahi. See for a simmilar coin on ZENO (http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=94132)
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: asm on May 22, 2011, 03:29:09 AM
Thank you Oesho for the correction.

I have a few queries.

This (http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=79378) coin on Zeno and the one (http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=94132) refered by you look similar. Both are AH 1040 RY 3 Month Mihr. However your coin is attributed as KM#224.1 while the other coin is attributed as KM#222.2 Which of the two is correct?

From the month and the AH 1040, is it possible to deduce the RY? (This question is based on a discussion Richie and I had on some other coin where this point was discussed)

Amit

Dear Oesho, You have mentioned the reference of this (http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=56590) coin (the coin mentioned at the start of the thread) listed as LMC#1831& CMN#531 on Zeno but have not made a KM reference. So is this variant a different type or a variant of the coin shown in SCWC?
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: Oesho on May 22, 2011, 11:01:33 AM
The KM reference of ZENO #94132 (http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=94132) should indeed be KM#224.1. The coins with the Ilahi year should be KM#224.

Quote
From the month and the AH 1040, is it possible to deduce the RY? (This question is based on a discussion Richie and I had on some other coin where this point was discussed)
Yes this is possible, will work it out later.

Quote
You have mentioned the reference of this coin (the coin mentioned at the start of the thread) listed as LMC#1831& CMN#531 on Zeno but have not made a KM reference. So is this variant a different type or a variant of the coin shown in SCWC?

The coinage of Shah Jahan for his early years show a bewildering variety, which can't be covered by KM references. Nevertheless as general type it is KM #222.
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: asm on May 22, 2011, 12:26:17 PM
Dear Oesho, Thank you for the fast response. I have noted the points clarified b you.

As regards the RY, I have tried to apply a logic. I hope my deductions are correct. Since the two coins 1040 Mihr (Zodiac month Libra = month 7) are RY 3 and 1040 spans RY 3 & RY 4,  Ardibihisht (Zodiac month Taurus = month 2) should be RY 3.

Amit
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: Oesho on May 22, 2011, 04:03:29 PM
AH1040, Ilahi month Ardibishist falls within regnal year 4.
1040  4  Farwardin
1040  4  Ardibihist
1040  4  Khurdad
1040  4  Tir
1040  4  Amardad
1041  4  Amardad
1041  4  Shahrewar
1041  4  Mihr
1041  4  Aban
1041  4  Azar
1041  4  Di
1041  4  Bahman
1041  4  Isfandarmuz.
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: asm on May 22, 2011, 07:41:29 PM
Thank You Oesho for this excellent table.

Amit
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: asm on July 04, 2011, 07:21:23 AM
Another one AH 1041 RY seems not visible but as per Oesho's table above, Isfandarmuz would be covered in RY 4.

(http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l628/asm2110/ShahJahanAhmedabad.jpg)

Is my reading of the month and consequent deduction of the RY correct?
 
Amit
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: Oesho on July 04, 2011, 01:40:14 PM
Quote
Is my reading of the month and consequent deduction of the RY correct?
Yes, it must be and it is also confirmed by the coin. Part of the 4 can be clearly seen to the left of the 'B' of zarb on the right image. Above Ilahi a part of Sanah can be seen as well.
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: asm on July 04, 2011, 02:24:12 PM
Dear Oesho,

Thanks for the details. I did see the 4 but was confused. I believe I have got both the Sanah and the RY correct in the picture.

Amit
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: Oesho on July 04, 2011, 04:10:09 PM
Quote
I believe I have got both the Sanah and the RY correct in the picture
.
No, sanah is below the four and above Ilahi
What you see is just a horizontal line, being the 'S' of sanah
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: asm on July 05, 2011, 03:06:09 AM
Thank You for pointing out the correction. I hope I have it right now.

Amit
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: Oesho on July 05, 2011, 09:36:04 AM
Correct.
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: Rangnath on July 06, 2011, 01:06:24 AM
Thanks for the diagrams Amit. And of course, thanks for the confirmations Oesho.
richie
Title: Re: Shah Jahan, Rupee Ahmedabad, AH 1037 RY Ahd
Post by: Coinsforever on July 06, 2011, 05:00:10 AM
Valuable learning experience of reading complicated moghul coins....................

Thanks to all .......

Cheers ;D