World of Coins

Euro coins => Commemorative 2 euro coins => Topic started by: Pabitra on November 06, 2020, 04:45:25 AM

Title: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Pabitra on November 06, 2020, 04:45:25 AM
Final design
Title: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Bimat on November 06, 2020, 07:12:12 AM
So we have a third €2 commemorative from Luxembourg this year? I think it wasn't allowed unless there was also a common issue with other EU countries?

As per ECB (https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/coins/comm/html/index.en.html):

As a rule, euro countries may each issue only two €2 commemorative coins per year. Exceptionally, they are allowed to issue a third, provided that it is one issued jointly and that it commemorates events of Europe-wide importance.

Prince Charles' birth does not seem to be an even which is of Europe-wide importance to me ;) and the birth date mentioned really confused me. I am more used to MM-DD-YYYY format these days due to several reasons and I had to look at Wikipedia to actually find his birth date (whether it's May 10 or October 5)!

Aditya
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: eurocoin on November 06, 2020, 08:48:04 AM
This is the second, and last, 2020-dated commemorative 2 euro coin Luxembourg will issue. The other one was issued to commemorate the birth of Prince Henry of the Netherlands.
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Pabitra on November 06, 2020, 08:49:55 AM
Aditya,
You seem to be mistaken.

Luxembourg has issued only one 2 Euro coin in 2020 which is on 200th Ann of birth of Prince Henry.

Which is the other one?
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: eurocoin on November 06, 2020, 09:12:45 AM
As Numisfreund remarked on Emuenzen, if this coin is indeed being issued it would be the first ever euro coin of Luxembourg without the portrait of Grand Duke Henri on it. The coinage act of Luxembourg stipulates that all their coins have to depict a portrait of the incumbent Grand Duke. I do not know whether this has recently changed.
Title: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Bimat on November 06, 2020, 09:17:08 AM
Aditya,
You seem to be mistaken.

Luxembourg has issued only one 2 Euro coin in 2020 which is on 200th Ann of birth of Prince Henry.

Which is the other one?

75th Anniversary of the Signing of the Charter of the United Nations - Listed on quite a few sites. Or is it not an official issue but a fantasy design? ???

Aditya
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Figleaf on November 06, 2020, 09:23:22 AM
Wasn't there an EU-induced taboo on using the ring for anything other than the stars?

Peter
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Pabitra on November 06, 2020, 09:50:25 AM
75th Anniversary of the Signing of the Charter of the United Nations - Listed on quite a few sites. Or is it not an official issue but a fantasy design? ???

Aditya

Planned but cancelled, in view of better topic.
Similar to Olympic coin planned by another country, approved but dropped later.
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: eurocoin on November 06, 2020, 09:53:54 AM
Wasn't there an EU-induced taboo on using the ring for anything other than the stars?

Peter

Although it is not strictly forbidden, there is indeed a sort off taboo. A country like the Netherlands will obviously never do it anymore. Other countries rightly don't take the EU too serious.
Title: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Bimat on November 06, 2020, 10:37:58 AM
Planned but cancelled, in view of better topic.
Similar to Olympic coin planned by another country, approved but dropped later.

Wasn't aware that it was planned but later cancelled. Thanks! The graphic images (proposed? imagined?) are still doing rounds on web, though...

Aditya
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: eurocoin on November 06, 2020, 10:43:21 AM
Wasn't aware that it was planned but later cancelled. Thanks! The graphic images (proposed? imagined?) are still doing rounds on web, though...

Aditya

The image of the United Nations coin is official.
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: eurocoin on November 06, 2020, 11:31:01 AM
There will be 2 versions of this coin. A normal version in relief which will be released in UNC, BU and Proof. There will, however, also be 2,500 special proof coins on which the Minted Photo Image technique was used.

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=103963;image)
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Angus on November 06, 2020, 12:12:33 PM
As Numisfreund remarked on Emuenzen, if this coin is indeed being issued it would be the first ever euro coin of Luxembourg without the portrait of Grand Duke Henri on it. The coinage act of Luxembourg stipulates that all their coins have to depict a portrait of the incumbent Grand Duke. I do not know whether this has recently changed.

Yes, I wondered that.  Perhaps having the first and second in line to the throne means you don't have to have the Grand Duke himself!
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: eurocoin on November 06, 2020, 12:22:49 PM
Numisfreund on Emuenzen had contact with Mr Hoffmann (a very fine person) at the Central Bank of Luxembourg this morning. The BCL says the missing portrait is not a problem because Grand Duke Henri is depicted on the coin through his monogram. That appears to be a very "creative" interpretation of their coinage act which is very clear that the incumbent Grand Duke should be depicted on the coins.

Quote
Die Verfassung wurde auch nicht abgeändert, denn der Staatschef ist mit seinem Monogramm auf dem Entwurf abgebildet, und zwar oben links in der Form eines Buchstaben H mit einer Krone.
Title: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Bimat on November 06, 2020, 01:46:29 PM
There will be 2 versions of this coin. A normal version in relief which will be released in UNC, BU and Proof. There will, however, also be 2,500 special proof coins on which the Minted Photo Image technique was used.

(http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39617.0;attach=103963;image)

So typical of BCL. They always find ways to milk money from collectors! ::)

Aditya
Title: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Bimat on November 07, 2020, 06:33:58 AM
Just read that mintage of UNC coins will be 160,000 only. If that's true, mintage of proof coins will be 5000 or so only... ::)

Aditya
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: chrisild on November 07, 2020, 01:20:38 PM
The BCL says the missing portrait is not a problem because Grand Duke Henri is depicted on the coin through his monogram. That appears to be a very "creative" interpretation of their coinage act which is very clear that the incumbent Grand Duke should be depicted on the coins.

Let us put it this way: If Luxembourg's laws say that the head of state has to be depicted on each and every coin, it is because the head of state insists of having the depiction there. ;) (After all, several older coins from LU do not have a grand-ducal portrait.) If the Grand Duke now finds the monogram to be sufficient, the BCL and ultimately the Luxembourg government will take that into account when presenting and approving the design.

As for what elements can be on the ring of the country specific side, this design is sort-of-OK, I think. European law – Council Regulation (EU) No 729/2014, Article 6 – is fairly clear in that regard. "The national side of circulation coins shall bear a circle of 12 stars that shall fully surround the national design, including the year mark and the indication of the issuing Member State's name. This shall not prevent some design elements from extending into the circle of stars, provided that the stars are all clearly and fully visible. The 12 stars shall be depicted as on the Union flag."

The question is, what does this "extending" mean? If the country name, for example, is spread across the pill and the ring, that is fine. Mintmarks and such on the ring only, hmm. But the stars are indeed shown right.

Now in my opinion we do not really need to have 24 Stars of Europe of our coins. Just arrange the 12 on the common sides in a "flag style" circle, and allow the entire country specific side to be, well, country and issue specific. But nobody listens to me anyway.  ;D

Christian
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: chrisild on November 07, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
the birth date mentioned really confused me. I am more used to MM-DD-YYYY format these days due to several reasons and I had to look at Wikipedia to actually find his birth date (whether it's May 10 or October 5)!

Myself, I find "the American way" confusing. ;) For sorting purposes on the computer, I use YYYY-MM-DD (in fact, I simply type xdat and the current date is inserted). But DD-MM-YYYY is more common in Europe. An ascending or a descending order, either way is fine with me. But that month-(down)-day-(up)-year zigzag is just ... oh well.

What I do find a little strange, with regard to the text on the coin: The language used is Luxembourgish, but the abbreviation of the title seems to be French (S.A.R. = Son Altesse royale). According to the Internet ;) the Luxembourgish version is "Seng kinneklech Altesse", and that would be "S.K.A.". Now what ...?

Christian
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: eurocoin on November 07, 2020, 09:18:50 PM
DD-MM-YYYY makes the most sense, all other formats should be abolished. As for the abbreviation, that is an interesting observation! Very odd.
Title: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Bimat on November 08, 2020, 06:46:18 AM
Myself, I find "the American way" confusing. ;) For sorting purposes on the computer, I use YYYY-MM-DD (in fact, I simply type xdat and the current date is inserted). But DD-MM-YYYY is more common in Europe. An ascending or a descending order, either way is fine with me. But that month-(down)-day-(up)-year zigzag is just ... oh well.

DD-MM-YYYY makes the most sense, all other formats should be abolished. As for the abbreviation, that is an interesting observation! Very odd.

I have been working with our American client(s) for last 3+ years so I am more used to MM-DD-YYYY format (and also FPS system!)...But I do agree that it's confusing and DD-MM-YYYY is the best one to use. Since we work with multiple offices from different countries/continents which have different dating system, I have adopted the habit of mentioning full date as "November 08th" and not 08-11 or 11-08 just to make sure that no one is interpreting it differently. If required, I mention year too (November 08, 2020), especially when we are discussing long term project schedules which goes into 1-2 years of planning.

If I were the designer of this coin, may be I would have followed the same practice on the coin too. ;D Or mention the date format below the date :D :D

Aditya
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: chrisild on November 08, 2020, 01:48:58 PM
If I were the designer of this coin, may be I would have followed the same practice on the coin too. ;D Or mention the date format below the date :D :D

But the coin will be issued by Luxembourg. I am sure that Luxembourgers – in fact, pretty much everybody in the euro area – will know how to read the date. ;D (My documents such as passport, driver's license and ID card do of course have the same DD.MM.[YY]YY date format.)

What may be helpful for those who prefer this strange up-and-down date format: The dots should indicate that something is "different" here ...

Christian
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: eurocoin on November 10, 2020, 01:12:14 PM
I asked CBL about the abbreviation. They replied that the abbreviation is not French but Luxembourgish! Specifically they wrote the following:

"Indeed, concerning the use of language, there was a preference for S.A.R. de Prënz Charles, meaning Seng Altesse Royale de Prënz Charles, which is the more commonly used".

In contrary to 'Seng Kinneklech Altesse', Google cannot find any mention of 'Seng Altesse Royale'. CBL gets 'douze points' for creativity.
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: chrisild on November 10, 2020, 02:35:39 PM
CBL gets 'douze points' for creativity.

Indeed. :D But thank you for asking, and letting us know about their reply!

Christian
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: eurocoin on November 10, 2020, 03:37:24 PM
In contrary to the information provided earlier: Both the coin in normal relief as well as the coin in Minted Photo Image Technique will be available in rolls.
Title: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Bimat on November 10, 2020, 03:39:30 PM
In contrary to the information provided earlier: Both the coin in normal relief as well as the coin in Minted Photo Image Technique will be available in rolls.

I was about to post a question about this - received an offer from a seller who is asking €22 for two coins (with and without image) which I think was too cheap for a UNC + Proof combo...I was expecting a BU coin card instead of proof but now it makes sense to have both the versions in unc rolls. Wonder if the mintage will be 50-50 for both?

Aditya
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Angus on November 10, 2020, 05:11:56 PM
According to this site: https://www.2euro-overview.eu/index.php?&button=detail&muenze=455

There will be

275,000 in rolls with mercury and lion
25,000 in bags of five coin sets with the other eight standard coins, with mercury and lion

7,500 in coincards with mercury and bridge

1,000 proof with the other 2020 CC, with bridge and lion (and, it would seem, a photo-like design)

Given that the proof sets are said to cost €102, I doubt you'd get one BU and one proof for €22!
Title: Luxembourg 2020 Birth of Prince Charles
Post by: Bimat on November 16, 2020, 05:46:12 AM
BCL will also issue a silver collector €25 coin with the same theme. Although dated 2020, the coin will be issued in January 2021. The design is almost identical to the €2 commemorative with slight changes like position of the birth date is at 4 o'clock but apart from that, nothing major..

Aditya
Title: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Bimat on November 28, 2020, 04:37:41 PM
DD-MM-YYYY makes the most sense, all other formats should be abolished. As for the abbreviation, that is an interesting observation! Very odd.

Happened to see this map on Twitter. Apt! :D

Aditya
Title: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Bimat on April 01, 2021, 05:50:15 PM
Although I am yet to add this €2 commemorative to my collection, I received the €25 silver collector coin with the same theme and design yesterday; paid less than the issue price. Not a bad end to the financial year. ;)

Aditya
Title: Re: Luxembourg 2020 birth of prince charles
Post by: Angus on April 05, 2021, 06:31:50 PM
So for mugs like me who collect the variants, is it correct that there are five of this one?
- embossed, bridge and lion
- embossed, bridge and mercury
- embossed, lion and mercury
- photo, bridge and lion
- photo, lion and mercury

Most sites I have seen don't seem to be aware of the photo, lion and bridge one, which is only available in a proof version.  And as far as I know the logical sixth one, photo, bridge and mercury, doesn't exist.