World of Coins

Research and reference => Numismatics => Topic started by: gerard974 on August 22, 2014, 02:00:02 PM

Title: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: gerard974 on August 22, 2014, 02:00:02 PM
hello
i have one question maybee stupid,what is the difference beetwen prooflike and proof. Some Russian coins have these grades. I dont know the difference but the value is not the same
Gerard
Title: Re: difference
Post by: chrisild on August 22, 2014, 03:21:54 PM
In German "Polierte Platte" (PP) means that both the dies and the blanks are "polished" before minting a piece. That is quite an elaborate procedure, usually reserved for low mintage surcharged pieces.

"Spiegelglanz" (sp) means that the dies are polished, but not the blanks. That is what the German mints do. Scratches and other damages are still a No-No, of course.

So much for German. ;)  But as far as I know, "Proof" is basically the same as PP while "Prooflike" is the equivalent of Spiegelglanz.

Christian
Title: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: chrisild on August 22, 2014, 03:42:11 PM
Moved the topic here; if it is catalog related, we can always move it back. By the way, if you also collect Austrian coins, things get even trickier: The Austrian Mint uses another term, "handgehoben" (hgh). As far as I know, that is similar to prooflike, except that the minting pressure is higher. Somebody more familiar with the procedure may correct me. :)

Christian
Title: Re: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: gerard974 on August 22, 2014, 04:01:06 PM
thank you very much,for the value the difference is prooflike 3$ proof 42$
gerard
Title: Re: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: Figleaf on August 22, 2014, 06:23:12 PM
Proof: high elements are white, low elements are shiny and mirroring.
Prooflike: all elements are shiny.

Peter
Title: Re: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: gerard974 on August 22, 2014, 06:45:12 PM
hello Peter
than you very much good explaint,now i go to seen my Russian coins
gerard
Title: Re: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: Prosit on August 22, 2014, 07:59:02 PM
To me, Proof is a method of manufacture with the intent of making the highest quality of coin possible.
Proof-like is a condition of a coin that isn't manufactured as a proof but has some proof coin characteristics or appearance.

but that is just my opinion.

How to tell the difference?  Darn if I know  ???


Dale
Title: Re: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: zookeeperz on January 10, 2015, 09:30:08 PM
Prooflike will not have cameo subjects its complete visual appearance is mirror like . Proof the subjects will be matt in appearance giving a 3d effects where the background is deeply reflective and enhances the the look of the cameo subjects. Here is a simple way to tell
Title: Re: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: JoeYuk on January 10, 2015, 10:58:06 PM
I don't know the procedure but here are BU examples and their Prooflike counterparts.
The sets were marked by the manufacturer as BU and Prooflike.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j220/joeyuk/20009%20BU%20and%20PL/1cPLandBU_zps126eb677.jpg)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j220/joeyuk/20009%20BU%20and%20PL/2cBUandPL_zps4abae36e.jpg)

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j220/joeyuk/20009%20BU%20and%20PL/5cBUandPL_zpsed07b0b6.jpg)
Title: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: Bimat on January 12, 2015, 06:06:35 AM
I have found it very difficult to differentiate between a proof coin and a proof-like coin; Luxembourg euro collector coins for example. They describe some of their coins as 'Proof-like' while some are 'Proof', however if someone is not aware of this, I don't think it's possible to differentiate between the two.

Aditya
Title: Re: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: Figleaf on January 12, 2015, 11:35:13 AM
There is no guarantee that mints wil stick to this. Even less that swollen-face hot-air sellers will.

A proof coin was struck at least twice, at low speed with polished dies. Raised parts are milky white and sharp. Fields are shiny.

A proof-like coin is the same, except that the dies are not polished. The whole coin is shiny. Depending on your taste, the result is often ugly, as design elements seem deformed and unsharp in the shine.

Proof and proof-like should be easy to distinguish. The difference between proof-like and BU (struck once at normal speed) is more difficult, especially when the dies are still fresh.

Peter
Title: Re: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: chrisild on January 15, 2015, 02:55:48 PM
Hmm, Germany issues "prooflike" coins, no "proof" pieces. And yet parts of the pieces may well be frosted.

Christian
Title: Re: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: Figleaf on January 15, 2015, 03:11:09 PM
That's likely to be an "early strike" effect: new dies are polished, like the dies for proof coins. This may produce a frosting effect, but it will diminish quickly, as the dies are not polished again quickly enough. This explains why on most proolikes, the effect is partial.

Swiss coins routinely have this effect even on circulation coins.

Peter
Title: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: Bimat on January 15, 2015, 03:15:14 PM
Quote from: Figleaf on January 15, 2015, 03:11:09 PM
Swiss coins routinely have this effect even on circulation coins.

...And many of the Finnish collector coins too (I'm referring to bimetallic €5 coins) :)

Aditya
Title: Re: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: chrisild on January 15, 2015, 08:01:52 PM
Well, this page (http://www.muenzenmagazin.de/startseite0505/spiegelglanz0505.htm) explains quite nicely (but in German) what "Spiegelglanz"/Prooflike means for German collector coins. Don't think that people would buy such pieces if the effect was gone after X strikes ...

Christian
Title: Re: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: Figleaf on January 15, 2015, 08:32:41 PM
The article explain proof (polierte Platte), not prooflike. The effect I described is not a deterioration, but a disappearing enhancement that is not included in the price.

Peter
Title: Re: Proof and Prooflike - Difference
Post by: chrisild on January 16, 2015, 12:07:35 AM
Let me put it this way: You say "Proof and proof-like should be easy to distinguish." This is, for example, how Münzenrevue and Münzen & Sammeln (http://www.gietl-verlag.de/blaetterkatalog/Buecher/Sonderheft_2014/blaetterkatalog/index.php) put it (from the "Glossar" on page 4). And that happens to match my experience with German PL coins. But of course things may well be totally different when it comes to the Russian coins from the initial post ...

Christian