World of Coins

Modern Asian coins, pseudo coins and trade tokens => Indian subcontinent: Mughal, Princely states and colonial (1526-1947) => Mughal central government => Topic started by: asm on April 24, 2013, 07:46:51 AM

Title: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: asm on April 24, 2013, 07:46:51 AM
I believe this is a Dam of Akbar minted at Hissar Firoza. Please help confirm attribution and read the date.

Amit
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: abhinumis on July 24, 2013, 10:23:26 AM
Time has come to dig this very important thread that never got the attention it needed... This coin I think has been misattributed to Chunar in the past... But the coin is of Hissar.. I would call upon Oesho, Saro, Overlord to comment on it
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: akona20 on July 24, 2013, 11:19:37 AM
Dates on these coins are very important.
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: asm on July 24, 2013, 11:57:04 AM
I posted pictures of this same coin on ZENO. (http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=124461) I also remember that the original attribution was done by Mr Shailen Bhandare on FB. It is a coin of Hiassar with epithet Firoze or Firoza. A very early issue dated AH 965.

On another coin of the same mint (a Nisfi), he notes that It is difficult to say whether it is Hisar or Hisar Firuza only on the basis of the AH date - as far as I recall, coins with AH date have been noted both with and without Firuza after Hisar.

On this coin, as Oesho notes on ZENO, there is something seen above Hissar and that may be the epithet - Firoze or Firuza.

Amit
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: abhinumis on August 09, 2013, 08:25:25 PM
The date is 975 A.H. And I've recently acquired 2 dams of the same type and i can safely conclude that it is hissar rather than hissar firoza.
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: asm on August 10, 2013, 09:37:32 AM
Jan has read the date as 965 and his comment is that there is some word above the Hissar...... Con you please elaborate your conclusion of both points.

Amit
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: abhinumis on August 10, 2013, 02:03:41 PM
I have a similar coin with very clear obverse and reverse. The coin is dated 975. 965 is not possible as dams of that date before and after 965 has hissar firoza on it and different than this type. It is highly unlikely that a dam bearing 965 as date would appear.. Regarding some line like impression on hissar is really ornamental.. I'm sure oesho would relook at the date. I'll try to post my coin but as I'm out of Delhi, I'm unable to do so immediately.. But rest assure it is Hisar and not Hisar firoza
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: akona20 on August 10, 2013, 02:19:45 PM
I can perhaps see how Jan has read this as a 6 however a closer inspection will see it is a 7. The 'tail" is part of the legend below. saw a similar problem today in an old listing for an Akbar coin
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: saro on August 10, 2013, 05:38:59 PM
I am afraid to enter in this experts' battle ...I put my helmet :D...

I agree with Jan to read "Hissar Firoza" as there is with no doubt "something" over "Hissar", which is for me the "r" of "firoza", but I am not able for the date to read 965...
on upper part, there isn't "panch" (= 5) but a fraction of "tarrikh"; the other persian words are well "nuhsad..shast wa.."(96x)
at 10/11 o'clock the end  of a letter is present which seems to be "shash" = 6 ( I see nothing else possible)
So the date could be 966 !!!
I'll try to post a drawing tomorrow to illustrate that.
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: saro on August 10, 2013, 06:59:19 PM
Here a drawing :
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: abhinumis on August 10, 2013, 07:10:09 PM
Excellent work Bernard, u r among experts , I'm just an amateur trying to learn.. But I still don't agree with you in terms of Hisar firuza as mint name.. I'll definitely post my coin which will clear a lot of doubts. Also I request you to read the date on my specimen which is less worn and clearer than this coin. I sorely wish l had the coin with me
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: akona20 on August 10, 2013, 11:16:22 PM
no denying that. I see where the error was made on the old workings as well now, hmmm. Need to get a picture of this old coin to see if another error was made. Thanks Saro
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: asm on August 11, 2013, 06:48:36 AM
Thanks a ton saro for the beautiful work on the coin........I can still see some more engraving on the left image (obverse) around 10 - 11 O'clock. May be it is the balance part of the word Firoza????? And thanks for the update on the reading of the date.

I will wait for Abhishek to return from his humanitarian mission to help the victims of the Uttrakhand tragedy and would love to compare his coin.........and a big thank you is also due to him, for digging out this old (well not so old) thread.

Amit
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: abhinumis on August 11, 2013, 10:34:56 AM
Time and again old catalogues have made error in attributing this coin to chunar only because someone looked at a coin having tail end of the mint and seeing the hijri date.
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: akona20 on August 11, 2013, 12:16:01 PM
There are in fact a number of ways in which the fragments of the legend on this coin can be read so the discussion cane be never ending. So we really need coins that can be fully attributed to really comment.
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: abhinumis on August 27, 2013, 06:50:04 PM
Again raking up this old thread.. As I had promised to put the coin I had here it is. Now one can easily see the border and hence can confirm that whatever is on hissar is not 'fe' of firoza.. Date is absolutely clear(967). Now if one opens Valentine and refer to mint Chunar, the very same coin with the initial 'he' of hissar cut is attributed as Chunar. So that is absolutely wrong in Valentine
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: akona20 on August 27, 2013, 11:09:37 PM
Well not only Valentine made that error he was following many others. Chunar does not exist.
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: asm on August 28, 2013, 03:37:05 AM
On FB on the Nisfi I posted there (as well as here) yesterday, there was a definite conclusion on the discussion that Coins of Hissar with AH are all with the epithet Firoza / Firuza while the Ilahi dated coins are Hissar. ThShailen Bhandare and Numis (Zubair) Khan.

Amit
Title: Re: Akbar. Dam. Hissar Firoza? Please Help confirm.
Post by: akona20 on August 28, 2013, 04:59:26 AM
This is one of a series of interesting reworks of old theories on mint name not only for Akbar but for other Mughals as well. The other two are probably correct in their suggestion however a little more work needs to be done (and is being done) on this question.

For the moment Firoza is used as the translation but this is subject to change when more examples are looked at. In this case I believe the translation of Firoza is "successful".