World of Coins

Modern Asian coins, pseudo coins and trade tokens => Indian subcontinent: Mughal, Princely states and colonial (1526-1947) => Mughal central government => Topic started by: asm on August 31, 2012, 12:05:34 PM

Title: contmporary counterfeit like a Mughal Dam?
Post by: asm on August 31, 2012, 12:05:34 PM
I am not sure if it is Mughal or Sultanate but since it is only one from the many Mughals, I have posted it here. Please help attribute it.

Amit
Title: Re: Please help attribute.....
Post by: Oesho on August 31, 2012, 02:38:21 PM
I looks more like a contmporary counterfeit coin. See the way falus is writen on top of the left image.
The side were the date is written shows a similar corrupt engraving.
Title: Re: Please help attribute.....
Post by: Coinsforever on August 31, 2012, 04:56:53 PM
I looks more like a contmporary counterfeit coin. See the way falus is writen on top of the left image.
The side were the date is written shows a similar corrupt engraving.

May I request to elaborate why need arise to forged such copper coins mainly used by laborers /workers for their wages .

We can find lot of  silver coin were  forged , but  forging of lower denomination copper coins is  quite unusual or it was common practice.

Cheers ;D
Title: Re: Please help attribute.....
Post by: Figleaf on August 31, 2012, 09:16:52 PM
My understanding of the reasons for fake coppers is still incomplete, but these factors may well have played a role:

- Some small lords who did not have minting rights liked the idea of turning surplus copper into coins and earning seigniorage.
- Copper coins were needed for shady activities, such as paying workers in the opium and gambling sectors.
- Since poor people were more likely to be analphabetic, fake coppers were more readily accepted.
- Official supervision on copper coins was not good, while shroffs kept a sharp eye on silver and gold.

Peter
Title: Re: Please help attribute.....
Post by: Coinsforever on September 01, 2012, 12:26:04 AM
My understanding of the reasons for fake coppers is still incomplete, but these factors may well have played a role:

- Some small lords who did not have minting rights liked the idea of turning surplus copper into coins and earning seigniorage.
- Copper coins were needed for shady activities, such as paying workers in the opium and gambling sectors.
- Since poor people were more likely to be analphabetic, fake coppers were more readily accepted.
- Official supervision on copper coins was not good, while shroffs kept a sharp eye on silver and gold.

Peter

You have refresh my memory of previous discussion between other WOC members (namely salvete ,asm,engipress,oesho,richie ....)  regarding Kachcha pice (http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php/topic,6486.msg56141.html#msg56141) coins of Ratlam , Gwalior etc .

It means this latest  coin of asm  can be safely put into Kachcha pice category ?

Cheers ;D
Title: Re: contmporary counterfeit like a Mughal Dam?
Post by: asm on September 01, 2012, 06:44:51 AM
More than anything else, it appears that these were produced to take care of the small change / payments. Since the main mints may have been located far away, transport time, costs etc would have caused a continuous shortage of the poor mans currency....... the Dam. So local chieftains may have stepped in to ease the poor mans troubles. Also, the exchange rate was based on weight in accordance to the price of the two metals, it would not have mattered much as to who minted the coin.....as long as the material was pure. With silver, it was a different matter.......

Amit
Title: Re: contmporary counterfeit like a Mughal Dam?
Post by: asm on September 04, 2012, 07:53:26 AM
At 19.91 g, it is just a tad under the official Dam weight or may be it is within the tolorance of the weight of a Dam. So why copy or counterfeit the coin?

Amit
Title: Re: contmporary counterfeit like a Mughal Dam?
Post by: saro on September 05, 2012, 10:39:09 AM
Very interesting indeed ! 1 dam in Akbar's time was one day payment for a worker and allows him to provide food for his whole family...may be a reason to make a counterfeit...this coin seems to have been in circulation among others.

If I am not wrong, I would be pleased to read the word "dam" over "zarb" ? as far I know, only one official examplar (of highest scarcity!..)  of a dam from Srinagar mint, bears this denomination...I would be pleased if somebody could confirm my reading.
If it is the case, dear Amit, you possess here a gem, even counterfeit.
Title: Re: contmporary counterfeit like a Mughal Dam?
Post by: Coinsforever on September 05, 2012, 10:44:52 AM
Very interesting indeed ! 1 dam in Akbar's time was one day payment for a worker and allows him to provide food for his whole family...may be a reason to make a counterfeit...this coin seems to have been in circulation among others.

If I am not wrong, I would be pleased to read the word "dam" over "zarb" ? as far I know, only one official examplar (of highest scarcity!..)  of a dam from Srinagar mint, bears this denomination...I would be pleased if somebody could confirm my reading.
If it is the case, dear Amit, you possess here a gem, even counterfeit.

That would be like finding diamond from the mine.

Congrats !

Cheers ;D
Title: Re: contmporary counterfeit like a Mughal Dam?
Post by: asm on September 05, 2012, 11:50:00 AM
Zeno has two copper coins of Shrinagar (http://www.zeno.ru/showgallery.php?cat=7934) but both are Ilahi type and look very different. Let us wait for Oesho's advice.........

Amit
Title: Re: contmporary counterfeit like a Mughal Dam?
Post by: saro on September 05, 2012, 12:48:06 PM
The coin in question is unique I think, it's a half dam of Ilahi type which bears the denomination :"nim dam" in full letters / Lahore museum n°706 (date ? & month amardad)
The dams on zeno database are of "common" types and haven't the word "dam" written on them.
Your coin isn't really a copy of an existing coin but better the job of an inventive engraver...


Title: Re: contmporary counterfeit like a Mughal Dam?
Post by: asm on September 05, 2012, 02:14:54 PM
The coin in question is unique I think, it's a half dam of Ilahi type which bears the denomination :"nim dam" in full letters
The weight is 19.91g.......

Amit
Title: Re: contmporary counterfeit like a Mughal Dam?
Post by: akona20 on September 05, 2012, 02:35:53 PM
I am having an Arthur Dexter Braddley moment with saro's suggestion. I see

Falus
Sikkah
Ajmer
Zarb

Just a bad effort at Ajmer.
Title: Re: contmporary counterfeit like a Mughal Dam?
Post by: saro on September 05, 2012, 03:53:22 PM
Thank you Akona,  with some effort but with no great doubt we can read "Ajmer" and the ornament on reverse well fit with the mint.
Title: Re: contmporary counterfeit like a Mughal Dam?
Post by: Oesho on September 06, 2012, 01:04:01 AM
Quote
The coin in question is unique I think, it's a half dam of Ilahi type which bears the denomination :"nim dam" in full letters / Lahore museum n°706 (date ? & month amardad)
The dams on zeno database are of "common" types and haven't the word "dam" written on them.
Your coin isn't really a copy of an existing coin but better the job of an inventive engraver...

The suggestion done by saro can't be correct. The coin in the Lahore museum is attributed to Srinagar and of Ilahi type. Neither Srinagar nor Ilahi can be read on the above coin.
The coin is not Ilahi type, so it can't have an Ilahi month. Moreover the coin is of a Dam weight and could not be a 'nim dam' either.
The legend on this type of copper Dams reads Zarb Falus (mint name)/date in digits and in writing.