World of Coins

Modern European coins except the euro => Russia and USSR; Belarus, Ukraine => Topic started by: Prosit on December 20, 2011, 01:53:42 AM

Title: Russia 1840 1-Kopek
Post by: Prosit on December 20, 2011, 01:53:42 AM
This appears to me to be C# 144.1 (EM Ekaterinburg).
Title: Re: Russia 1840 1-Kopek
Post by: Prosit on December 20, 2011, 01:54:04 AM
Odd looking M


This appears to me to be C# 144.1 (EM Ekaterinburg).
Title: Re: Russia 1840 1-Kopek
Post by: Figleaf on December 20, 2011, 04:44:20 PM
I think I see two things happening here. First, there's a blob of extra metal around the M. Second, the whole mintmark is weakly struck. Since a double error is statistically unlikely, maybe we should assume a connection between the two.

One scenario I can think of: dies are centrally produced. On arrival in the Ekaterinenburg Mint, an inexperienced worker is told to add the mint mark. He places a punch on the die and hits the punch with a hammer, but not at a straight angle. The hammer is deflected along the punch and slightly damages the die. No one cares...

Peter
Title: Re: Russia 1840 1-Kopek
Post by: inscriptor on January 03, 2012, 10:34:52 PM
This is definitely a EM coin. The other mints for 1 kop., 1840 are "СПМ" (saint-petersburg's mint) and "СМ" (Suzun mint), so here's a coin struck in Ekaterinburg, for sure. 
Title: Re: Russia 1840 1-Kopek
Post by: inscriptor on January 03, 2012, 10:40:37 PM
In 1840 we've got automated coining devices :) This began in 1700 when Peter the Great has discontinued hammered coinage and introduced european-quality miting system.
Title: Re: Russia 1840 1-Kopek
Post by: Figleaf on January 04, 2012, 12:43:35 AM
My scenario does not involve minting, but completing the die with a punch.

A well-known case of centrally made dies is France. All dies were made in Paris and shipped out to the provincial mints. These added the mint mark and, if necessary, the mark of the director and chief engraver of the mint. Another example is the UK, where the mint in London outsourced striking some colonial coins to the (private) Birmingham mint. Again, the dies were made in London, the mint marks added locally (or the unwanted mint mark filled in, as the case may be.)

Peter
Title: Re: Russia 1840 1-Kopek
Post by: inscriptor on January 04, 2012, 01:43:37 AM
Really nice info about France!

I still believe we're having a weak strike of this particular coin here. The process of making dies in Russian Empire has been decentralized, since each mint had its own mintmeister (the guy who was responsible for the whole process to be implemented in a correct way), its own coin designers etc. Letters of the mints and mintmeister's initials were added by puncheon, but the whole process had been made by the same group of people.
Title: Re: Russia 1840 1-Kopek
Post by: inscriptor on January 04, 2012, 02:00:51 AM
Information about French mints was so useful that I couldn't but quoted it here: http://apps.creounity.com/time_machine/en/index.php?go=revolutionfrancaise.php#mints (http://apps.creounity.com/time_machine/en/index.php?go=revolutionfrancaise.php#mints)
Title: Re: Russia 1840 1-Kopek
Post by: Figleaf on January 04, 2012, 02:26:10 AM
The French revolutionaries didn't agree all the time on when their dating system started, so the same revolutionary year could be the equivalent of more than one AD year. Too sleepy to look it up now, but Wikipedia will have more information.

Peter