Author Topic: Bull & Horseman type Jital-Jalal al-Din Mangubarni(in Sind)AH617-621 Ref:G/G SS7  (Read 3273 times)

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Offline asm

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On this Bull & Horseman coin that weighs 3.3g, I am able to read (starting at the top on the right image) '.....ta la da.......'. I am unable to go beyound this. Please help.



Amit
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 01:18:23 PM by capnbirdseye »
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline Oesho

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Re: Please help attribute this Bull & Horseman coin
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2010, 10:22:11 PM »
Jalal al-Din Mangubarni (in Sind) AH617-621/AD1220-1224.
Obv. inscr.: sa jalaladina
Ref.: G/G SS7; Tye 318.

Offline asm

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Thank you Oesho for the attribution.

Amit
"It Is Better To Light A Candle Than To Curse The Darkness"

Offline THCoins

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Resurrecting an old thread which at the time did not receive much discussion. But i think the coin presented is more interesting than it may seem at first sight.
I was going to a pile of jitals when i noticed one which i thought i'd never seen before. Looking for similar specimen i encountered this thread. And it is indeed the same type.
Why is this interesting to me? Well first, the Jitals of Mangubarni are generally attributed to Nandana mint. However, if one looks at the style of the specimen shown in G&G it is totally different to the one shown here. Also, in the Tye catalog there seems to be a division in two stylistic subtypes. Tye 318.4 and 5 are in the typical Nandana style. Subtype 1 to 3 differ markedly in style and excecution.
The specimen shown here corresponds best to Tye 318.2 based on the Nagari 4 character below the horseman. In addition it shows that below that is another character most resembling nagari "Ha" or devanagari "Da". For 318.2, the Tye catalog only shows the horse side. The bulls side of the coins shown here is remarkeable also. First, the style of the bull differs from the Nandana type. The bull has an eye and a sharp pointed mosquito nose and more resembles the earlier Ghorid bull. The overlay below shows another feature. This has been mentioned several times on Zeno, without further discussion. The normal inscription of the Mangubarni Jitals is "Sri JaLaLaDiNa". On this specimen this legend clearly ends to the front of the bull. There is another legend feature behind this. I found one picture of a similar coin which clearly shows the first character after "Jalaladina" complete. At the moment i can not provide a reliable reading.
My hypothesis is that this cointype predates the standard "Nandana" type. This also brings up the question if this subtype could have been minted at a different mint.
 
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 05:51:41 PM by THCoins »

Offline Figleaf

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May I suggest a PM to Oesho?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Oesho

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Have seen it, but solution either.

Offline THCoins

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Thanks for the confirmation !
I guess we will have to wait for some more specimen to surface to say more. To start with that, here's another:
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 08:01:55 PM by THCoins »

Offline drnsreedhar

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Here are two more
Dr.Sreedhar

Offline EWC

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My hypothesis is that this cointype predates the standard "Nandana" type. This also brings up the question if this subtype could have been minted at a different mint.
 

The attribution to Nandana  is speculative.  I say this with confidence, since it is my own speculation ;).  My assumption is that early issues at the mint - wherever it was - closely followed the Delhi style and then rapidly diverged into a style of its own, and that still seems to me the simplest explanation.  That more complete specimen of 318.2 is very interesting - and a more complete version of the obverse may well suggest it  differs from  that of 318.1.

Rob T

Offline THCoins

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The items added  by Dr. Sreedhar nicely complement the ones i showed. The first is a typical "Nandana" style. Similar style types exist for Sharaf Beg and Iltutmish. The second seems fo fit best with Tye#318.3.
I do support the possible Nandana atribution that was postulated. But a question that puzzles me is; where was this coin design picked up to be produced under Mangubarni ? As it is not likely a continuation of a type from a mint that was under control by his father. A possibility i am exploring is whether this coin type was produced first in one of the mints previously under control by Nasir ud-din Qubacha, and then transferred to Nandana as the troops of Mangubarni were pushed further under Mongol pressure. Quite a lot of missing links there though.

Offline Tariq

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Adding a photo to complete the legend.

Offline THCoins

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Thanks! The last picture indeed nicely complements the end of the legend of the type previously shown by drnsreedhar.
I am still looking for a specimen which reveals the last part of the additional legend on the subtype i showed.