Author Topic: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?  (Read 18307 times)

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Offline ZYV

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Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« on: August 01, 2012, 07:02:25 PM »
"Understandable", as for me, coin (a photo from WWW).
Italian states.
FOSDINOVO
Maria Maddalena Centurioni,
1663 - 1669.
Luigino 1667.

Legends
M MAD MAL MAR SOW DI FOS
DNS ADIVTOR ET REDEM MEVS

My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

Offline ZYV

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Re: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2012, 07:04:50 PM »
And my coin.
It was unearthed in the Ukraine. 
Legends of obverse:
HEC EST VER  APALAN  IMAG
My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

Offline ZYV

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Re: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2012, 07:06:01 PM »
Legend of reverse:
PER TOTAM ASIAM CURRENS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please, help me to find answers to questions:
1. Why so strange transformation of coin legends?
Is it a trade coin (for trade with Levant)?
Why it was struck in this Fosdinovo?
2. I have found in WWW coins with similar (not the same) obverse legend  HEC EST VIRTVTIS IMAG
For example:
http://www.mcsearch.info/search.html?search=Cammarano+93+var.+&view_mode=1&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ol=1&sort=&c=&a=&l=#0
And type of my coin I can’t find.
3. How rare and interesting is it & what can be said about the price?   
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 07:20:33 PM by ZYV »
My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

translateltd

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Re: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2012, 11:20:17 AM »
And my coin.
It was unearthed in the Ukraine. 
Legends of obverse:
HEC EST VER  APALAN  IMAG

I would make a small adjustment to the word breaks:

HIC EST VERA PALAN IMAG (Behold the true image of "Palan", whatever that stands for).

Still no idea of its origin but this starts to give the "Imitation" legend some meaning ...

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2012, 11:21:14 AM »
Well, Lanz knows its business, so if they say their coin is a coin I would tend to accept that. Your coin seems different only in that VIRTUTIS is replaced by VERA PALAN. I don't find that a shocking variation. I don't have a catalogue that includes this series, but unless proven otherwise, I would accept this as a genuine variant coin.

Where my mind pops is the legend on both. Reading the texts on both sides as one, it says something like: "this is the true / poweful image that is current all over Asia". First, this is totally contrary to the tradition that a coin should have name and titles of the ruler in the legend (note that the Paris struck-coin does use this convention), second, I see no connection between Fosdinovo and Asia, let alone all of Asia. With that in mind, I wonder how official the two variants (your and that of Lanz) are.

Maybe our French-speaking friends can help us on this case. I'll ask.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline ZYV

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Re: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2012, 11:45:55 AM »
May be it can help.
One more coin from WWW.

TASSAROLO.
Legend: MAR  LIV  COM PALAT  SOV  DOM.
 
My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

Giovanna

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Re: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2012, 07:25:21 PM »
Hello ZYV, you can write for the weight and diameter of your coin?
Thanks, hello, Gio :)

Offline ZYV

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Re: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2012, 09:11:31 PM »
...the weight and diameter of ...coin?
1.96 g.
20.25 mm.
 :)
My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

Offline ZYV

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Re: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2012, 05:48:25 PM »
No answers.
 :(
So, we have a piece for
 ;)
My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

Giovanna

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Re: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2012, 04:41:10 PM »
Sorry, but I have my grandchildren at home and the weather is very little.
I write what I told my friend the other day:

There are a lot of Luigini
posted seem to actually post an imitation or a forgery of the era of the Third Kind posted on my site

http://www.rhinocoins.com/ITALY/SEC1/FOSD2.HTML

please note that in this period of the world is full Luigini c and were used for trade with the Levant, I even a money modena 8 false d period with Greek characters
However, it is interesting.
I always suspected that there were ticks in the Balkan underground, perhaps under the control turkish


http://www.rhinocoins.com/ITALY/SEC1/FOSD2.HTML


Ciao, Giovanna

Offline ZYV

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Re: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2012, 07:27:15 PM »
Dear  Giovanna,
thank You for Your interest  and information!
 :)

But,
how we must attribute the coin?

An imitation?
A forgery of the era?






My publications on numismatics and history of Golden Horde  https://independent.academia.edu/ZayonchkovskyYuru

Giovanna

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Re: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2012, 09:49:23 AM »
It could be both things, I would say more of a false era, but you have to do more research.
The money is interesting, but definitely not a variant. Good search.
Hello, Giovanna :) :)

akona20

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Re: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2012, 10:08:38 AM »
Giovanna offers interesting points. Perhaps it might be called a trade token?

Giovanna

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Re: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2012, 04:46:44 PM »
Hello, I think more than a false coin to mislead people, fake vintage were minted for this, often silver coins were minted in tin alloy to fool people.
Just like they orta counterfeiters with our bills. As this 20 pounds in 1927, Lictor, I show
Hello, Giovanna

Giovanna

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Re: Fosdinovo. Luigino. Trade imitation?
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2012, 04:47:50 PM »
Retro, hello to all