BI Contemporary Counterfeits

[Md. Shariful Islam]

Is it universal that sometimes counterfeits may become more important to collectors that genuines. As for my case I want to save these two untill my last. These two have added to my british indian album some special dimension. Moreover I still did not find answer to many questions regarding these two. Why, who, when,  how, etc. Moreover many has genuines. But how many has copy of these counterfiets? I am proud of you counterfiets. Thanks to them who made them.

Islam

[Figleaf]

I very much agree with that sentiment. When you are through buying stuff that's already catalogued in much detail, contemporary counterfeits are agreeable puzzles that supplement your collection with pieces that also circulated but don't appear in catalogues. Someone risked freedom or even death to make them, others distributed them, with much them same risk. They are part of the story.

Peter

[Md. Shariful Islam]

Thanks a lot sir. I knaew that my kids are gonna get your affection too.

Islam

[Md. Shariful Islam]

Today I got a 1901 Edward Rupee. I had to doubt at the last digit. There is a bit doubt but analysing and comparing with 1904 I am convinced that it is not from 1904. A perfect ping comes out of it. Design is also more perfect. Actually if it was not 1901 I would not doubt any way. In every respect I guess it is 90% (chance) accurate and 10% fake. Photo is coming soon.

Islam

[Md. Shariful Islam]

Here is the picture. Please comment on the coin.

Islam

[Figleaf]

Very skilfull forgery! the last digit of the date was carefully filed off (I think only a jeweller would have the equipment to do this) and replaced by a well shaped 1. I think the distance between the other figures in the date is just a tiny little bit longer than that between the zero and the last 1, but I am not even sure of that. The yellowish smudge (vinegar?) was probably made on purpose to hide the original figure, which was broader than a 1.

Fortunately, our criminal jeweller was not a good historian. In 1901, this portrait had not yet been created.

Peter

[Md. Shariful Islam]

Very skilfull forgery! the last digit of the date was carefully filed off (I think only a jeweller would have the equipment to do this) and replaced by a well shaped 1. I think the distance between the other figures in the date is just a tiny little bit longer than that between the zero and the last 1, but I am not even sure of that. The yellowish smudge (vinegar?) was probably made on purpose to hide the original figure, which was broader than a 1.

Fortunately, our criminal jeweller was not a good historian. In 1901, this portrait had not yet been created.

Peter

Thank you sir. Immediately after reading your comment I have talked to the seller. Will be sent back tomorrow. The last 1 is doubtful. Surely doubtful. But very skillful job. Very neat forgery.

Islam

[Coinsforever]

Jewellers have been  playing & experimenting  with these BI coins a lot , 1901 for Edward shows lot of  ignorance and  interests only for bullion value of coin .

While returning it to jeweller you may ask which year digit , he replaced with 1 ( )


Cheers

[Md. Shariful Islam]

Jewellers have been  playing & experimenting  with these BI coins a lot , 1901 for Edward shows lot of  ignorance and  interests only for bullion value of coin .

While returning it to jeweller you may ask which year digit , he replaced with 1 ( )


Cheers

Nah. The coin is really confusing. Replacing a digit should require fine to finer technique. Under magnifier I did not see any trace of shouldering 1. Height if all four digits are same. But last 1 is taller than others. Black oxides around 1 indicate that if altered, it is not done recently.

[Coinsforever]

Nah. The coin is really confusing. Replacing a digit should require fine to finer technique. Under magnifier I did not see any trace of shouldering 1. Height if all four digits are same. But last 1 is taller than others. Black oxides around 1 indicate that if altered, it is not done recently.

Understood it means tooling has been done during circulation days itself ,  jeweller has not applied his skills recently & coin is not a victim of contemporary tooling.

Technically such alteration of design / denomination / digits is named as - Tooling.

Cheers

[Md. Shariful Islam]

Understood it means tooling has been done during circulation days itself ,  jeweller has not applied his skills recently & coin is not a victim of contemporary tooling.

Technically such alteration of design / denomination / digits is named as - Tooling.

Cheers

I am forced to think that the tooling was done on the die itself. Now I have three contemporary counterfiets bearing the year 1901. I guess this year was safer to quote on some of the coins for some reason. My alternative hypothesis is 1. the shortage of coins forced some local authorities to issue coins at some later times using this year, 2. Some smugglers issued fakes as silver was cheaper than the purchasing power of these coins and they found these years safe for them.

The cause of drawing this hypothesis is that the 1901 is the year when Victoria died and Edward was made king. But Edward issued first coins in 1903. May be this transition created shortage of coins in circulations.

An interesting thing is there is an official issue of 1901 Victoria Empress rupee and none in 1902. So, if it is jewellers who may be in the list of suspicion, they should have made coins of 1902 as ignorant collectors will pay high price for that. So, I infer that these 1901 counterfiets were issued because of shortage of coins by some groups of contemporary people and they used 1901 as a safe year to use on them.

Islam

[Coinsforever]

I read few of wealthy jewellers got the dies of BI Coins during early days of pre indipendence  (in Jaipur ,Dehli - northern India) , pretended to be use for producing pooja coins/replica  for Diwali occassion or so.


I also agree with your  guess  may be these coins are results of tooling of die itself.

Cheers

[Md. Shariful Islam]

For curiosity I want to know the price that this coin was sold for. If anybody could help me with the price.

Islam

[Md. Shariful Islam]

After solving Islam Shah's coin I am researching with this (third one) coin. My initial doubt was that it was made from 1904 coin. Observations from my research are:

1. It is not from 1904. Distance of the 1 to 1 in this coin is shorter than 1 to 4 (the vertical line of 4 assuming that 4 is tooled to 1).
2. 1904 and this 1901 coin is different in some two more areas.

Because of these findings I was trying to find the coin that might be changed to 1901. Under magnifier I located some scratches on the right hand side of last 1 of 1901. So, one probability was that the digit that has been removed is a wide one and preliminarily was convinced that it is 6.

But when I was studying 1906 coin, I found that the coin of 1906 is different from the said coin of this thread. Finally, I compared this coin with 1903, 1904, 1905, 1906, 1907 coins that I have. I found that in all these have some common features which is absent in this coin. The features are as follows:

1. Reverse of these coins commonly have a concave like shape, while the coin of 1901 is flat.
2. The digits of the years of these coins are much thinner than this coin.

Because of these differences I feel that this coin is not a genuine or official one. But the convincing points of the coin is:

1. It has a similar ping like other genuine ones. I don't believe that it is a cast coin. If there was an official 1901 coin, there was no doubt that this is a genuine coin.
2. The coin has perfect weight.
3. Coin is of silver good silver.
4. Letters of the coin is by no means like fake and in every respect like genuine.
5. Under magnifier the last digit never from any direction seems that it is pasted ( I need a digital microscope to get the final result).
6. The coin was well circulated.

Finally a doubtful coin remains a question mark to me.

[Coinsforever]

Interesting report regarding this Mysterious coin of ED VII .

As you are interested in BI coin and considerable coins in your collection , you may verify this features which is exisiting in rupee coins of ED VII. (1903-1910)

Between India & date  persian script dots - 3, 4,5 (your coin shows - 5 dots)

Cheers