BI Contemporary Counterfeits

[Bimat]

You always have to be extremely careful while buying British India silver coins from jewellers. Most of the times they are fakes. I myself have bought fakes a couple of times.

I'd indeed buy a coin (knowing that it's a fake) if offered for a good price, though. But never listen to their argument that it's an error/rare/super rare coin...

Aditya

[Md. Shariful Islam]

Aditya
Thanks. But how to locate fakes???

[Bimat]

I'm not an expert in British India coins and other members are far more knowledgeable. So they are the right people to tell about how to recognize them.

Commonly made fakes are the most popular varieties or dates. 1938, 1939 rupee, Pig rupee, Some Victoria dot varieties are some of the examples.

Another thing to check is their inscriptions/portraits. Many times, a rupee coin dated 1940 shows portrait of King George V or a rupee of 1901 shows portrait of KG V. Those are obvious fakes..

Aditya

[Figleaf]

Many fakes are easy to recognize. If the coin is silver or gold, have a jeweller you trust (not the seller) look at it. This will already exclude the most obvious fakes. Comparing diameter and weight with the official data will give more security. However, keep in mind that billon coins that have spent a couple of centuries in the ground may lose their copper content to acids (especially where artificial fertilizer was used, while the silver is not affected. The result will look brittle and porous and weight may be down by up to 60%. However, coins are never heavier or larger than the official specification (except for double or triple thickness coins, of course.)

Next, compare the coin meticulously with a genuine copy. The internet is loaded with pictures of coins. I often find even the same date. This is even easier if you have a phone with an internet connection or a scan or photo of the coin. Keep in mind that before say 1800, different mints could strike different versions of the same type. Points to compare are the thickness of the lettering, the relative placement of the lettering compared to design elements sticking out, unsharp designs without signs of wear and wear that ooks like it was there already when the coin was produced.

Next, check the rim. This is the weak point of many forgeries. Letters that are not properly aligned, ribs (partially) missing and especially a horizontal seam are signs of trouble. However, official mints make rim errors also (but never seams).

If the coin is "special", like your 1901 rupee, it must have a convincing story. Here is an example of a story that convinces no one: the two dies were never in the same mint. Here is a convincing story.

The rest is just a question of experience. If you have seen many Roman silver coins and you see a whole collection of Roman silver pieces that are perfectly round, well centered and with an almost shiny surface you know you are looking at modern fakes.

Peter

[Md. Shariful Islam]

Knowing about the Ping Test written by Peter in another thread I spent the whole evening testing my British India coins... I found one that fails, sounds very bad flop like... It is the EIC Victoria Rupee with stars posted on another thread... But this coin passes successfully though I was looking at this with doubt...

My latest observation on this coin is, it was struck with genuine dies later taking out from the store as I notice that the designs are not as fine as it was in other 1840 obverse and 1901 reverse... But the coin is struck... It used dies of two different times...

The planchet is a bit smaller... The wear on the coin suggest that the coin was in circulations for long time... It was printed not for colleactors but for circulations... I dont know what was the necessity...

Islam

[Figleaf]

I heard that British Indian coins, especially rupees, halves and quarters were imitated rather well in Birma and were accepted in circulation, due to the lack of coins there (this may have something to do with the drugs industry). Found no documentary evidence, but also nothing contradicting the story.

Peter

[Md. Shariful Islam]

Today I found this in a sudden... Long ago I saw this coin but could not buy that as the seller was asking for a very very high price... I was always looking for that... Was amazed what that was... Asked the question to many forums... Did not find answer... Today probably I got my answer... Or new question have been raised... Gentlemen... Please have a look into this...

Weight: 11.61 grams
Diameter: 30.5 mm

Islam

[repindia]

The probability of finding two mule coins in the market at low prices is next to nothing. If it seems too good to be true then it probably is!

Please also note a previous post by Peter about these types of coins being manufactured in Burma. This one might be one of these.

[Md. Shariful Islam]

I want to call these mules... These mules were not result of natural free mating of two different dies but by a person who probably did not have other options but mating these two different dies... Another possibility is that the mules are result of a person who did this for fun in lab somhow managing the old dies...

I am convinced that the coins actuallly were made by using worn original dies as I did not find any error in design, weight but size... Interestingly these coins are smaller than usual coins... Tomorrow I shall visit the other seller from whom I saw the Edward coin earlier... That visit may answer some of my questions...

Islam

[Md. Shariful Islam]

No... The seller did not show the coin... He denied... He said, he has sold the coin... I also have had misbehave from him...

I guess I have bought the same coin from another seller at cheap... I shall try to confirm the matter later...

Islam

[Md. Shariful Islam]

I have observed some interesting issues in these two coins... First observation is that the obverse of Edward coin is much clear than that of Victoria... From 7 to 11 O'clock position of Edward coin has extra cracks... In the same area of Victoria coin the design has en relief type error... The design is not even clear in many place of the area mentioned...

This may indicate that the die was used for printing several of such coins... At the same time there was shortage of dies... Thats why the mint had to continue using the same die even there was error... I guess the rupees were issued for circulations, not for collectors and so the die got worsed... The theory of Burma as suggested by Peter gets more prominent...

Is there any specimen of similar Burma coins on net? I could not find any... If any that could have been helpful to draw conclusion...

Islam

[andyg]

below are two UK £1's from 2000 - the coin on the right is fake...
Since there is no question official royal mint dies have ever left the mint, it therefore must be a fabrication based on the original coins.  A few years ago a gang making these was arrested, in their possesion were dies and minting equipment - none of it from the mint.  So it is possible to create realistic dies.



Below is a fake and a genuine French 10 Franc, this fake is more impressive as it's actually two metals as well

[Figleaf]

Both fakes can be recognized by the unsharpness of the lettering. Moreover, the UK fake has the typical pitted surface of bad fakes and an edge error. I bet the side of the pound is not very good either. Your French fake is better then usual. They often suffer from bad alignment of ring and pill.

Peter

[Md. Shariful Islam]

And what about the metal and weight of these recent fakes? I shall point out one difference between the fakes of our times and that of times of precious metals. Fakers of our times gain by the difference between face value and metal value used. Fakers of precious metal era would gain by using less precious metal or by using less metal if the the coin is minted for circulation.

The two rupees used in this thread has perfect weight. The jewellers tested the metal and confirmed them of silver despite the color suggests me them as less in quality.

I compared the obverse of a genuines and these under magnifier and found no question.  On the reverse I found what I mentioned earlier. The rim is different ofcourse. And smaller in diameter though weight is same. Another issue is I did not find a similar on net, even not on ebay.

Islam 

[Figleaf]

This is why it is important to measure diameter also to identify fakes. Once you start diminishing precious metal content, either the weight or the diameter (volume is even more precise, but much harder to measure) will be incorrect. However, coins with high numismatic value can be faked with the correct metal. In that case only the design remains to separate fake and genuine.

The modern UK pound coin fakes are machine-made with the help of a genuine coin. Fortunately, while the machines copy every detail of the design, they produce a die that is less sharp, so the design looks duller. If you could cut through a letter and enlarge it, the genuine letter would look like a block or a building, with sharp edges, while the fake would show a sloping hill. In addition, the machines cannot produce a complicated edge very well.

Fortunately, the forgers are not very smart either. They sometimes do not even get the metal right. In my collection, I have fake pounds ranging from reddish (far too much copper) to silvery (far too much aluminium) and mules (wrong dies paired). Therefore, fakes for circulation remain easy to spot.

Peer