Belgium 2010- Change in privy and designer: mint mark

[Rasmus]

As per Pabitra Saha mail:

Belgium as changed privy and designer mark, is it only on 2 euro or in all 2010 coins?

[Figleaf]

On the whole 2010 series. So far, they managed a slightly different series every year. I wonder what they'll think of for 2011.

Peter

[bart]

Indeed: the mintmark of the Brussels Mint has changed place from the right to the left of the date.
As mintmaster Romain Coenen has retired, his privy mark (scales) was changed to the privy mark of mintmaster ad interim Serge Lesens (a goose feather). Mr. Lesens was not appointed as full mintmaster, as the government hasn't decided yet about the possible closing of the Royal Belgian Mint.

Bart

[bart]

On the whole 2010 series. So far, they managed a slightly different series every year. I wonder what they'll think of for 2011.

Peter

These are the possibilities for 2011:

-The King could abdicate and his son Philippe could become king: will probably not happen. I suppose the King stays in function until he dies.
-The King could die and his son Philippe could become king. This is not predictible.

In these cases there is a possibility to change the effigy of the king, but the change would be most probably done in 2012.

-The Mint could be closed and the Belgian coins could be struck elsewhere: will probably not happen this year, as there is not a ruling government and this decision cannot be taken by the former government, which looks at the running affairs. For a new government the closing of the Mint will not be an urgent issue.

In this case another mintmark could be used.

-A new government could be formed, which could appoint another mintmaster.

In this case another privy mark could be used, but, as for the possible change of the king's effigy, if this happens, the new privy mark wouldn't probably be used before 2012.

As a conclusion: there is much chance there won't be any changes on the eurocoin series this year.

Bart

[Bimat]

I have €2 of 2006, 2007 and 2008. So missing two to complete the 'type collection' of Belgian €2 coins..

And as for €1 coins..no signs of new map Belgian coins yet.. Missing 5 (2006-2010)..But I think some of the dates (2007?) exist only in sets so probably will never be able to complete the type collection of Belgian €1 coins (unless I buy the BU set which is highly unlikely )

Aditya

[Figleaf]

Pabitra Saha would like to know:

Belgium 2 Euro general circulation coins of 2009 and 2010 show a shift of mintmark and replacement of privy mark with new privy mark. My queries are

1. Does the privy mark change only at the end of the year or changes as soon as mintmaster changes? This is with reference to general circulation coins only.

2 With every mintmaster, does the location of privy mark also change? Is this a standard tradition like face direction change of succeeding British Monarchs?

[bart]

You certainly cannot speak of a tradition: the use of privy marks on modern Belgian circulation coins started with the bird of mintmaster Vogeleer (mintmaster 1963-1987), followed by the scales of mintmaster Coenen (1987-1/1/2009), and now the goose feather of interim-mintmaster Lesens.
The first modern privy mark was used on the Royal Wedding commemorative (50 francs of 1960): it was the lambs head of mintmaster Lamquet. The privy mark was put on the left, while the Brussels mintmark was put on the right.
The privy mark of mintmaster Vogeleer was also put on the left (25 centimes with monogram B; 10 francs Royal Seal; 20 francs Bauduin; 5 and 50 francs Bauduin in three parts), while the Brussels mintmark was kept on the right.
The privy mark of mintmaster Coenen was first put on the left, replacing Vogeleer's mintmark. On the 20 and 50 francs of Albert II, the privy mark was placed on the right, beneath the Brussels mintmark, while on the 5 francs and 1 franc of Albert II it was put on the right of the Brussels mintmark.
On commemorative issues the privy mark was put on both left (500 fr. Europalia,250 fr. Benelux, King Bauduin Fund, Queen Paola, Queen Fabiola, Royal Wedding Anniversary, Wedding of Crown Prince) and right (250fr. Queen Astrid, 200 fr. Millennium series, 50 fr. E.C. Soccer, 500 and 5000fr. E.U. Presidency) positions .
On some coins it was put above the Brussels mintmark (500 and 5000 fr. Albert and Isabella; Charles V)

The privy mark was put on the left position on the euro-coins.
Serge Lesens' privy mark has indeed changed positions and appears on the right.

Bart

[Pabitra]

You certainly cannot speak of a tradition: the use of privy marks on modern Belgian circulation coins started with the bird of mintmaster Vogeleer (mintmaster 1963-1987), followed by the scales of mintmaster Coenen (1987-1/1/2009), and now the goose feather of interim-mintmaster Lesens.
The privy mark was put on the left position on the euro-coins.
Serge Lesens' privy mark has indeed changed positions and appears on the right.

Bart

Thanks a lot for very detailed reply. My queries now are 1. If Coenen was no longer the mintmaster from 1/1/2009 then why was his privy mark used on the 2009 coins? Does the year round privy mark is used of the mint master who was in seat on 1st January?  What would happen for a mint master who is appointed in the middle of year and does not stay till end of the year. 2. Should I try to look for quill privy mark of Lesens in 2009 circulation coins when I know that his privy mark has appeared on 2009 Braille commem of Belgium which was of 2009?

[chrisild]

If Coenen was no longer the mintmaster from 1/1/2009 then why was his privy mark used on the 2009 coins?

May have something to do with the dates of the authorization or publication in the government bulletin. The October 2009 issue of the mint's customer magazine said that "all circulation coins dated 2009, and the royal jubilee coins, show the mintmaster sign" (ie. Coenen's scales):

(Dutch version) Alle circulatiemunten met het jaartal 2009 en de herdenkingsmunten van de Koningsjubilea dragen echter nog dit muntmeesterteken. http://treasury.fgov.be/intermunt/MUNTINFO/muntinfo51.pdf
(French version) Toutes les pièces de monnaie de circulation portant l'année 2009 et les pièces de commémoration des jubilés du Roi portent toujours son poinçon signature de directeur de la Monnaie. http://treasury.fgov.be/intermunt/MUNTINFO/muntinfo51fr.pdf

Oh, and welcome, Pabitra!

Christian

[Pabitra]

Thanks for welcome but I am not new to this forum.
My queries are making more than occasional attendance on my behalf, courtesy my friends and colleagues.
Thanks for making me know the bureaucracy aspect of Belgium, part of which I came to know from defering of 2011 2 Euro which was not issued on Women's day.
The reason was that since Belgium does not have Govt. so coin could not have been issued but will be issued in a month or two.
It was as if there would be Govt. in a month or two when it has not been there for nearly a year or so.
If there was need for Govt. to approve its issue, then who approved its topic and design?
So, as per you, I should give up the search for 2009 coins with "quill ( feather)" as privy mark.

Also, please let me know more about the rumours of Brussels mint likely to be closed. Is there any likelihood?

[bart]

So, as per you, I should give up the search for 2009 coins with "quill ( feather)" as privy mark.

The commemorative 2 euro 2009 - Louis Braille, bears the new privy-mark. So does the silver commemorative 20 euro 2009 - father Damien.

Also, please let me know more about the rumours of Brussels mint likely to be closed. Is there any likelihood?

The Minister of Finance, Didier Reynders, couldn't decide whether to close the Mint or not. Now the federal government is demissionary since about a year and such a decision cannot be taken. It is not certain if this matter is urgent enough to be decided on by a new government. In our political history, many such cases were "forgotten" by new coalitions.
It is a fact that Serge Lesens was only appointed as interim-mintmaster and not as a "full" mintmaster because of the possible closing of the Mint.

Bart

[Gerhard Schön]

Some years ago, there has indeed been a rumour about closing the mint which is completely off the cards for quite a time now since the mint is operating at profit again.

Also, please let me know more about the rumours of Brussels mint likely to be closed. Is there any likelihood?

[Tom0000]

I heard this rumor a year ago.

Gerhard Schön, it will not be correct with subject of this thread, but if I have a chance I want to ask you about something.
Your catalog of euro coins (but not only yours but all others) does not include the initial prices of coins distributed by mint/issuer not by face value but by commercial value because of distributing the coins in folder or box or coin card.
Why this information is not used in catalogs ? This is my opinion, but the prices in all catalogs are only estimates or averaging market prices . The initial prices are the only true and safe prices we can describe the folder/card/box. What do you think about it ?