Andorra aims at issuing euro coins in 2014

[chrisild]

News from Andorra: The government expects to finalize the agreement with the European Union fairly soon, and plans to issue euro coins as from July 2013. More about this, in Catalan:

(News release) http://www.govern.ad/?p=13646
(Booklet, PDF) http://www.govern.ad/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Acord-Monetari.pdf

Edit/Update: According to the current schedule, the coins may come in January 2014. See the latest posts in this topic.

Christian

[<k>]

So that's a relatively short timescale. Do you expect there will be a competition to provide the designs, and then a vote on them? Or is that not the way Andorra does things? I'm not sure how many artists there are in Andorra, so they may have to solicit designs from other nationals too.

[chrisild]

Or is that not the way Andorra does things?

Unfortunately we do not have any experience in that regard - keep in mind that Andorra does not issue any circulation coins. In the pre-euro years they just used francs and pesetas; then they started using euros. The Andorran "diner" coins (100 cèntims = 1 diner) do not actually circulate in the country: they are pieces made for collectors. That is also why there has never (AFAIK) been a public competition, let alone a vote, on them. And yes, the schedule is ambitious. Let's see when the agreements (which cover much more than the question of coins) will actually become effective.

Christian

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Just had a look at my catalog to see which mints have made Andorran diner "coins" so far. Well, that is a mixed bunch: The Polish Mint, Mayer Mint, Swiss Castell Mint, Mint of Finland, Tower Mint, etc.  The 2008 "Mona Lisa" piece, for example, was minted in Warsaw and designed by Witold Nazarkiewicz, so maybe the producing mint does the designs too ...

One positive aspect of the agreement - provided it gets OK'd and finalized as it is - will be that many coins should be made for circulation. According to the news release (see link in reply #10) the initial issue volume would be €2.3 million. Not much, but then again we all know that the coins are not really needed. Now 80 percent of these coins would be circulation coins, 20 percent collector coins. Whether that means that four out of five pieces are actually issued at face is a different issue.

Andorra will contact the French and Spanish mints regarding the production of the coins. These two countries would, according to the plans, leave parts of their annual issue volumes to Andorra. In return, the Andorran coins are likely to be minted in Madrid and Pessac.

Christian

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The agreement with the European Union has not been ratified by the Andorran parliament yet. And that won't change in the next few weeks: They have early elections on 3 April, also because of controversies about taxation issues. So the future of this agreement also depends on what the next parliament majority will be like. We may see Andorran euro coins fairly soon ... or maybe not.

Will also be interesting to see what happens to diner denominated "coins" in case Andorra starts issuing euro coins. The diner pieces are issued by the "Servei d'Emissions" of the bishop of Urgell (who is one of the two heads of state) and do not actually circulate. Euro coins would however be issued by the Andorran government. So will there be both diner and euro issues? Stay tuned.

Christian

[Figleaf]

It will also be interesting to see if the Eurocrats thought of negotiating an open, EU-wide competition for the designs. I'd like to see how Frizio would do...

Peter

[Ukrainii Pyat]

Will also be interesting to see what happens to diner denominated "coins" in case Andorra starts issuing euro coins. The diner pieces are issued by the "Servei d'Emissions" of the bishop of Urgell (who is one of the two heads of state) and do not actually circulate. Euro coins would however be issued by the Andorran government. So will there be both diner and euro issues? Stay tuned.

Christian

I would hope that the EU would stop them from issuing at least those base metal coins - it is not like Andorra has a history of circulating coinage or a long time coinage like the Dutch Ducat or the San Marinnese Scudo coins.

[Figleaf]

There's a chance of minus zero they've done that.  Andorra is in this to get money off the backs of collectors and there are plenty of precedents: Vatican, Monaco, San Marino, Luxembourg. I would hope that at least 50% of the coins get issued in circulation, in line with the Vatican policy. No one is waiting for another sub-micro-state issuing sets only.

Peter

[chrisild]

It will also be interesting to see if the Eurocrats thought of negotiating an open, EU-wide competition for the designs.

Why would they? That is the Andorran government's decision. And I would really be interested to see the reactions, in any euro area country, if the "eurocrats" (whoever they are) attempted to enforce such competitions in any euro area country.

Christian

[Figleaf]

They ought to, because it is not only an EU general rule that government procurement must be open to nationals of all EU countries, but also a WTO rule, applicable to EU member states. That the rules are much flouted is another thing, but a negotiation with a fly-speck country is an excellent way to set some precedents.

Peter

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As little as I understand in this regard, this means that, if you have a design competition, the rules of the contest should equally apply to every possible participant. In Austria for example the mint has employed designers, and AFAIK nobody ever gets invited to a "general" competition. In Germany the BBR has that pool of artists which is (basically ...) open to anyone, and then so and so many are invited to submit designs.

So if Andorra ever gets the right to issue euro coins, the government could say there will be an open competition, and then that competition should indeed not be limited to Andorran designers. However, if they say, there is no competition, our designs will be created by some government committee, period ... then that would comply with the requirements too.

Christian

[Ukrainii Pyat]

I have always been a bit perplexed by Andorra, it is seemingly a sovereign nation, yet it is ruled by foreigners(Sarkosy, and the Bishop of Urgell) and while they have stamped out tonnes of coins since the early 1960's they have never used their own coins - always either Spanish, or French or their precedents.

I just think it is fascinating that the citizens there are seemingly fine with the status quo they have been in - helped in no small part by geography - for so very long.

I would like to think if they start minting Euro denominated coins, that I would might actually get one in circulation sometime.  But like San Marino, Monaco etc - I think that is just a pipe dream. 

[Figleaf]

Yes, the rules obviously apply to outsourcing, not to the government using its own employees. Therefore if the Vienna mint would use its own employees to create a design and die, that is defensible (but it would not be defensible to hire only Austrians for the job.) However, Andorra doesn't have a mint, let alone mint employees. Therefore, if Paris or Madrid get the job, I'd drag them into court by their ears if they use anyone that doesn't have a steady job at the mint without applying EU procurement procedures. Moreover I would have negotiated with the Andorrans that they would outsource design, making the flans and striking the coins separately, just to make this point. I also think I would have taken a hard look at the German procedures for selecting designs if anyone had ever given me half a chance.

It still happens far too often that governments will only appoint a national to a government job when there are better qualified candidates from other EU member countries and even against the advice of the committee handling the application procedure. Let's have some mintmasters rom other member countries. It will save money, improve quality or both.

Peter

[chrisild]

I have always been a bit perplexed by Andorra, it is seemingly a sovereign nation, yet it is ruled by foreigners(Sarkosy, and the Bishop of Urgell) and while they have stamped out tonnes of coins since the early 1960's they have never used their own coins - always either Spanish, or French or their precedents.

The concept of "sovereignty" seems somewhat outdated to me these days. In the European Union anyway, but even Andorra (not an EU member state) had to cope with the possible effects of being branded as an uncooperative tax haven by the EU and the OECD ...

Andorra is "ruled" by the French president and the bishop of Urgell just as the UK is "ruled" by the Queen. Do these heads of state make the political decisions? Hardly. In Andorra it is the parliament and the administration which do these things. And yes, in terms of money, the Andorrans simply use what their neighbors use. Again, it is not the Andorran government that issues those diner "coins" but the bishop - the euro coins however would be issued by the country so to say.

By the way, San Marino does issue circulation coins. So does the Vatican (since last year) ... and the proposed agreements with Monaco and Andorra apparently go in the same direction. Sure, the overall number is fairly low. But there is no practical reason for the four non-EU countries to issue coins anyway; the total number of circulation coins is high enough. So they do it for, hmm, prestige reasons, and of course for us collectors.

Christian

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Moreover I would have negotiated with the Andorrans that they would outsource design, making the flans and striking the coins separately, just to make this point. I also think I would have taken a hard look at the German procedures for selecting designs if anyone had ever given me half a chance.

While for us the aspect of Andorra issuing its "own" euro coins is highly important, it may have had a lower priority during the Andorran negotiations with the EU. Besides, even the relatively new agreement with the Vatican does not go into such detail. It does say, however, that "Euro coins issued by the Vatican City State shall be minted by the Istituto Poligrafico e Zecca dello Stato of the Italian Republic. (...) By derogation to paragraph 1, the Vatican City State may have its coins minted by an EU Mint striking euro coins other than the one mentioned in paragraph 1, with the agreement of the Joint Committee." Cannot imagine that a new agreement with Andorra would be all that different.

And no, you do not have to be German in order to get into the BBR's pool of artists. And contrary to the Finnish requirements for their design contests for example, you don't even have to live in the country. It's just that pretty much everything contest related will be in German ...

Christian