Author Topic: Counter stamped coins  (Read 14973 times)

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Online Figleaf

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Re: Counter stamped coins
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2011, 02:37:46 PM »
My favourite scenario would be that heat was applied to the obverse, while the coin was held in an instrument, much like you would hold a horseshoe to the fire. There may be marks on the edge at 6 and 12 o'clock; there seems to be a flat edge portion at 12 o'clock, but you are in a better position to judge that. Heat rises, so if it is blocked by the coin it will of course heat the coin, which is the object of the exercise, but there will also be a stream of hot air going around the coin, where the edge is up highest, relative to the rest of the coin. I think this explains the blackened area on the reverse.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Coinsforever

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Re: Counter stamped coins
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2011, 02:40:28 PM »
These counter marked coins are source of curiosity , in many cases due to lack of evidence or records

( with lot of questions such to any collector such as  : purpose of these counter marks , who did it ,  why only on few coins etc)

Studying & understanding  these counter marked coins are really fun and interesting....................

Cheers ;D
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Offline bagerap

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Re: Counter stamped coins
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2011, 05:41:27 PM »
I've long wondered if this 3d was the victim of governmental attack, or simply idle hands with access to a hammer.

Austrokiwi

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Re: Counter stamped coins
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2011, 12:47:01 PM »
Effect of heating: in anther thread on Rolled NZ half crowns I posted my experience of rolling a coin and using heat.  I found after the first heating I gained effects very similar to the aden MTT  on the side away from the flame subsequent heating lessened those effects.  So I quickly heated an NZ shilling ( low grade) once, heat was applied to the obverse but the "burning effect occured mostly on the reverse ( the side exposed to the most oxygen)

« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 01:34:24 PM by Austrokiwi »

Austrokiwi

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Re: Counter stamped coins
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2011, 12:47:39 PM »
Reverse of heated shilling

Offline malj1

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Re: Counter stamped coins
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2011, 01:30:03 PM »
Could it have been more than one coin that was fired, I can make out where two other coins may have lain on top of that reverse. Such as results of a bomb [or even plane crash] some such incident that someone survived in Aden 1944? - maybe with several coins in his pocket.
Malcolm
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Austrokiwi

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Re: Counter stamped coins
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2011, 01:36:40 PM »
Could well of but there is another possibility. See if you can guess which point of the pliers,I used, gripped the shilling. 

Offline malj1

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Re: Counter stamped coins
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2011, 01:52:10 PM »

Just here... but the same could still apply.  ;D

Malcolm
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Austrokiwi

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Re: Counter stamped coins
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2011, 02:25:46 PM »
yep  well spotted I think tongs or pliers were partially responsible for some of the reverse marking..... but your idea is equally valid

Austrokiwi

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Re: Counter stamped coins
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2011, 03:52:38 PM »
Interesting update.  Go through photocopies of the Indian Office ( Aden branch) files. I found the following buried in a letter from the governor( I assume of Aden) to the chief secretary dated 19th September 1955

"You may be interested to know that during the time of the Turkish occupation of Yemen, strenuous efforts were made by them to introduce Turkish currency but they failed and the Turks had to be content with over stamping Maria Theresa and earlier doll oars with the Cartouche of the reigning Sovereign.


Although it is dated 1955 it refers what I assume os the pre 1st WW time and I assume the cartouche is actually a Toughra.  It seems counterstamping was going on. I know of only 1 MTT with a Toughra and that is assumed to be a fake........this fragment may well suggest otherwise

Online Figleaf

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Re: Counter stamped coins
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2011, 05:12:30 PM »
Yes, very interesting. Do bear in mind that the governor was probably not a coin collector, maybe not even an Arabist. The remark may well refer to Yemen (Yemen East Aden Protectorate) KM 35 and 36. Cartouche is a word for a shape, setting some text apart. That shape could be the circle containing the countermark.

My doubt rests on the dating of te countermark. The governor says they are Turkish. If so, they would date before 1839, when the British took over. It is possible. However, the counterstamps on the Indian rupees clearly are from a much later date.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Afrasi

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Re: Counter stamped coins
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2011, 05:35:18 PM »
The countermark on the Qaiti State coins show AH 1307
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 05:44:03 PM by Afrasi »

Austrokiwi

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Re: Counter stamped coins
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2011, 09:56:07 PM »
Yes, very interesting. Do bear in mind that the governor was probably not a coin collector, maybe not even an Arabist. The remark may well refer to Yemen (Yemen East Aden Protectorate) KM 35 and 36. Cartouche is a word for a shape, setting some text apart. That shape could be the circle containing the countermark.

Peter

Some of the doubts about the Hejaz and Nejd countermarks( as well as Yemini) come from the fact there is no documented record of these countermarks existing b4 the 1956 Hans Schulman Auction when Tim Browders coins were sold. One American dealer in Islamic coins advised me he believed that American Oil workers in Yemen had the coins made.  Not necessarily to deceive as just expressing interest in a particular coin can see it being produced a couple of days later in some middle eastern countries.  So although the India Office record is only a year earlier than that Auction it gives an indication there was genuine counter marking of MTTs going on in the Yemen region. For me it is the first possibly corroborating evidence. Unfortunately it is only a hint!

Offline MORGENSTERNN

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Re: Counter stamped coins
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2015, 07:57:45 PM »
Hello
Here some more counter stamped coins

- 40 paras HEJAZ (fake or genuine ?) & 1/4 Ghirsh SAUDI (65 change of date)
- 1 bath THAILAND with a fake temple counterstamp (I think it is a fake because the seller sent several time the same coin)
- 1 rupee 1944 the seller told me : « kali charan soni » is a well known goldsmith (jeweler) of Rajhasthan Mewar state . he used to gift or order token



Offline Gagarin_Andrey

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