Author Topic: Example of Stage One Mint Information  (Read 1948 times)

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akona20

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Example of Stage One Mint Information
« on: October 24, 2010, 11:24:48 PM »

Stage one mint information is coins by Ry and ah by Source. Note this is very preliminary and just showing (and not an exact copy of the book pages) of how things will be recorded. I have put the full suggested process in another post.

Source Documentation

1. Brown C J: Catalogue of coins in the provincial museum Lucknow.
2. Lane-Poole S: The Coins of the Moghul Emperors of Hindustan in the British Museum.
3. Rodgers Chas. J: Coins of the Mogul Emperors of India.
4. Whitehead R B: Catalogue of Coins in the Punjab Museum, Lahore Volume II Coins of the Mughal Emperors
5. Wright H Nelson: Catalogue of the Coins in the Indian Museum Calcutta Volume III Mughal Emperors of India.
6. Zeno


Akbarabad

1119. Ry Ahd (5) (6)
1119. Ry 1 (4)
1120. Ry 2 (2) (4)
Ahd (1) (6)
1 (4)
2 (5) (6)
3 (4) (5) (6)
4 (4) (6)




Offline Oesho

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Re: Example of Stage One Mint Information
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2010, 11:59:22 PM »
Another major catalogue is the one of the Central Museum Nagpur by M.K. Hussain (Bombay 1973).
For easy reference I would advise to use some abbreviations of the major catalogues, viz.:
LMC 1. Brown C J: Catalogue of coins in the provincial museum Lucknow.
BMC 2. Lane-Poole S: The Coins of the Moghul Emperors of Hindustan in the British Museum.
      3. Rodgers Chas. J: Coins of the Mogul Emperors of India.
PMC 4. Whitehead R B: Catalogue of Coins in the Punjab Museum, Lahore Volume II Coins of the Mughal Emperors
IMC 5. Wright H Nelson: Catalogue of the Coins in the Indian Museum Calcutta Volume III Mughal Emperors of India.
6. Zeno
NMC 7. M.K. Hussain, Catalogue of Coins in the Central Museum, Nagpur, Part II, Coins of the later Mughal Emperors.

Offline Oesho

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Re: Example of Stage One Mint Information
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2010, 12:10:36 AM »
Akbarabad

1119. Ry Ahd (5) (6)
1119. Ry 1 (4)
1120. Ry 2 (2) (4)
Ahd (1) (6)
1 (4)
2 (5) (6)
3 (4) (5) (6)
4 (4) (6)


Remarks: It is not clear which mint epithet is used.
Yr.Ahd is the first year as described on the coin, but often in catalogues shown as 1.
Furthermore from such a list, misreading may creep-in again. So published coins should be marked, for instance in bold, which means they have been positively indentified. All other dates can always be subject to misreading or printing errors.

akona20

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Re: Example of Stage One Mint Information
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2010, 01:31:25 AM »
Thanks for the great advice.

1. On Ahd and 1.
This will become clearer when we do the transliterations. Published coins that have been fully published will be marked in bold with illustration and transliteration.
2. Mint epithets come in the next round along with a couple of other things. We needed to start on the basics first and build up seeking advice at each stage.
3. I will alter the references to your suggestions.
4. My Hussain is in transit. I just needed to kick this section off seeking advice before I got too far down what might have been the wrong track (lol)

Your advice is invaluable. We have to make sure we get the pattern right for this one before we move with too much haste.

Offline Salvete

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Re: Example of Stage One Mint Information
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 09:42:57 AM »
That remark of Oesho's regarding the mint epithet (and later, other important factors will crop up regarding change of type, such as legend and varieties of legend) is of primary significance.  Should not those coins of separate types and varieties not be listed separately?  There are positive advantages to quoting a type numbering system such as Krause uses - not least because 99% of collectors are familiar with it to the point that many carry a load of those numbers in their heads) but great care will be needed as one KM number sometimes covers a number of types and a large number of varieties.  Just my suggestion, of course.

Salvete
Ultimately, our coins are only comprehensible against the background of their historical context.

akona20

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Re: Example of Stage One Mint Information
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 10:05:12 AM »
The ultimate aim is to refer back to Krause. It is just that I want to take a step at a time to accomodate all collectors.

Part of the ultimate is to ensure that Krause is correct and can be referred back to our work to help folks understand what is on the coins and how and why they have been listed.

As I have said before we are not producing a catalogue, we are producing a work from which a complete and accurate catalogue can be constructed.

Offline Oesho

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Re: Example of Stage One Mint Information
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2010, 11:19:02 AM »
)
The ultimate aim is to refer back to Krause. Part of the ultimate is to ensure that Krause is correct and can be referred back to our work to help folks understand what is on the coins and how and why they have been listed.

This may last for a single edition of KM. After that again other parties will show up with 'so-called' new unlisted items (usual misreadings or wrong attributions) and again the contamination of the KM-records start. I have some experience with it.

Offline Salvete

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Re: Example of Stage One Mint Information
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2010, 11:29:33 AM »
You are certainly right, Oesho.  Which only proves the validity of starting from scratch, as Arthur is doing, and in future ensuring that contamination is not collected - by taking only new material that is proven with pictures, from a reliable set of contributors and Zeno, and so on - which is exactly what Krause should have been doing these last 30 years.

Whether or not I live to see the full exercise complete, I intend to assist as long as I can, with data.  I know that a number of others, much younger than I, or even than you, are of like mind.  Onwards and Upwards.

Salvete
Ultimately, our coins are only comprehensible against the background of their historical context.

Offline Figleaf

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Re: Example of Stage One Mint Information
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2010, 12:52:09 PM »
I am following this exercise from a distance, as I can contribute little, but given the purpose of it and the talk of contamination" above, shouldn't there be a second "list" of observe error reading and misinterpretations? It would be an important tool in the hands of cataloguers to ward against repetition of old mistakes. Just as there are"discovery zealots", there are "debunking zealots". Letting them slug it out would be a good exercise for both.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Offline Salvete

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Re: Example of Stage One Mint Information
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2010, 01:04:43 PM »
Yes, Figleaf - and a relief for most of the rest of us!

Seriously, though, it could well be useful to have such an 'appendix' so that we only need repeat each 'proof' once, until more actual evidence is brought forth - as it might well be in some cases.  I think that kind of tool is 'written into' the rules for the mint lists with grade A and grade B proof, and for the high bar that has to be vaulted by any coin that wants to be listed.  A precis of what that proof is and where to find and check it will presumably be part of that system.  Much of it is likely to be graphic rather than textual.  Like software, it has to be complex and suited to all situations in order to make using it simple.  If using it is not simple, we might as well all sit down and twiddle our thumbs because nobody will want to use it.  And there is nothing wrong with watching from the sidelines, Figleaf - a 'savvy' spectator can often spot what neither players nor umpires see.  More power to your elbow!

Salvete
Ultimately, our coins are only comprehensible against the background of their historical context.