Author Topic: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010  (Read 5776 times)

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Offline <k>

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2015, 01:19:34 PM »
Here is how I see it:

Official coins fall into three categories:

1] Standard circulation coins. These coins are usually minted with the same design for several years.

2] Commemorative circulation coins.  These are one-year coins that also circulate. In the UK, 50 pence, 1 pound and 2 pound coins are used for this purpose.

3] Collector coins. These are usually commemorative coins and are often described as "legal tender". However, normally they do not circulate, since they are intended for collectors. "Circulation-like" sets that do not circulate also fall under this heading.



Unauthorised pieces are fantasies - plain and simple.  ;)

Offline Prosit

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2015, 01:24:44 PM »
Looking at that 2010 set and then looking on eBay I see a different dollar coin for 2010 which I do see in the Krause catalog. I don't see the bimetallic one listed.

I have 11 coins for Cook Island but nothing for 2010. None of these I have look like they ever circulated. I like them anyway.

Dale

Offline andyg

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2015, 01:26:56 PM »
In this case,if Cook Islands had authorised it then it should have had at least same denominations as existing circulation coins.

Martin (translateltd) once told me that Cook Islands government got 10% of the profits from the sale of these....
always willing to trade modern UK coins for modern coins from elsewhere....

Offline Prosit

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2015, 01:30:38 PM »
I would put at least some circulation-like coins under "Standard Circulation Coins" instead of collector coins but other than that I like your definitions.

Dale



Here is how I see it:

Official coins fall into three categories:

1] Standard circulation coins. These coins are usually minted with the same design for several years.

2] Commemorative circulation coins.  These are one-year coins that also circulate. In the UK, 50 pence, 1 pound and 2 pound coins are used for this purpose.

3] Collector coins. These are usually commemorative coins and are often described as "legal tender". However, normally they do not circulate, since they are intended for collectors. "Circulation-like" sets that do not circulate also fall under this heading.



Unauthorised pieces are fantasies - plain and simple.  ;)

Offline Pabitra

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2015, 01:32:01 PM »
Many times, commemorative coins are never issued into circulation.

Also, many commemorative coins are issued for several years whereas there are cases where circulation coins were minted only for one year only. I can quote examples if so required.

Commemorative coins should have some association with the year in which they are minted and not like US 1 dollar of Native American, UK 1 Pound with flowers of Wales etc., or Serbia 20 Dinara with a personality with no link to the year of minting.

If collector coins are made, like earlier 2 Zloty of Poland , without any link to physical specification of existing circulation coin of same denomination then it is a token. It took Poland several years to understand that.

If Cook Island had permitted 2010 set the they should have a triangular 2 Dollar set as existing set which also was issued in 2010. Also, 1 Dollar of actual coinage was issued in 2010 and was of Copper Nickel and not bimetallic.

Offline <k>

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2015, 01:44:04 PM »
I would put at least some circulation-like coins under "Standard Circulation Coins" instead of collector coins but other than that I like your definitions.

Dale

The point of my category of "circulation-like" coin sets is that these coins look like circulation coins but do not circulate. "Standard Circulation Coins" absolutely do circulate. The two categories are mutually exclusive. These categories are entirely my own - others will have their own.

Offline <k>

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2015, 01:50:46 PM »
Also, many commemorative coins are issued for several years whereas there are cases where circulation coins were minted only for one year only. I can quote examples if so required.

Yes, that's another category: one-year-only circulation design series, e.g. the Canada 1967 Centennial set.

Commemorative coins should have some association with the year in which they are minted and not like US 1 dollar of Native American, UK 1 Pound with flowers of Wales etc., or Serbia 20 Dinara with a personality with no link to the year of minting.

Yes. "Special coin" would be a better term for these. The UK comprises 4 nations and uses the coins to honour each one in turn, using thematic subjects rather than commemorative ones.

Quote
If collector coins are made, like earlier 2 Zloty of Poland , without any link to physical specification of existing circulation coin of same denomination then it is a token. It took Poland several years to understand that.

No, it's a collector coin.  :D  Don't confuse the matter. A collector coin is an official issue, even if it doesn't circulate. Tokens are not official issues. They come in lots of categories, as the token boards on the forum show.

Quote
If Cook Island had permitted 2010 set, then they should have a triangular 2 Dollar set as existing set which also was issued in 2010. Also, 1 Dollar of actual coinage was issued in 2010 and was of Copper Nickel and not bimetallic.

What does this other 2010 dollar coin look like?

Offline Pabitra

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2015, 01:54:23 PM »
Looking at that 2010 set and then looking on eBay I see a different dollar coin for 2010 which I do see in the Krause catalog. I don't see the bimetallic one listed.

Which year SCWC are you looking at?
Kindly see 2015 SCWC which has been extensively revised.
The standard circulation 1 Dollar is listed as

Offline Prosit

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2015, 02:20:46 PM »
Consider the US dollar coins up to 2011 and the half dollars up to 2001.
Made to circulation specifications, made in numbers to circulate and the government had every intention that they would/should circulate. Most were available at banks in any quanity or were able to be had in any quanity at face value.

However the public doesn't circulate them.

That to me is "circulation-like coins" that I would catagorized under circulation coins and not collector coins. Not the other coins you likely are referring to which are collector coins that are circulation like in some fashion.

Since 2011 the US dollars and since 2001 the US halves are strictly collector coins. Absolutely no ambuguity about those later coins in my mind.

Dale


The point of my category of "circulation-like" coin sets is that these coins look like circulation coins but do not circulate. "Standard Circulation Coins" absolutely do circulate. The two categories are mutually exclusive. These categories are entirely my own - others will have their own.

Offline Pabitra

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2015, 02:24:54 PM »
I have now applied the acid test: I checked Gerhard's Katalog, and the Cook Islands 2010 set is included. Gerhard only includes official issues by recognised states, and also official issues by unrecognised states that hold power over the territory they control (such as Transnistria).

Which WMK did you see?
2015 WMK does not list that fantasy issue.

Here is what WMK lists and balance 2 coins in 2015 SCWC

Offline <k>

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2015, 04:08:42 PM »
Which WMK did you see?
2015 WMK does not list that fantasy issue.

Here is what WMK lists and balance 2 coins in 2015 SCWC

2013. So was it authorised or wasn't it? That's the trouble that fantasy issues cause - you can't always be sure which is fantasy and which is genuine.

I don't know when the Cook Islands stopped issuing its own coins. They had problems in 1994, when the NZ banks realised that the Cook Islands, which ran a currency board, were not fully backing their notes - each one was backed only 95%! So then the islands returned to using NZ coins and currency, but they still kept those coins of their own, that had already been issued, in circulation. So it's a complex issue. Good to see their hermaphroditic god, Tangaroa, still appears on the dollar.

Offline <k>

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2015, 04:20:09 PM »
Well, yes, that muddies the waters further. In that case, I would add whether the government / Treasury / Mint intended that a coin should circulate. This should be apparent from the mintage numbers. So those US coins that are disliked by the public should in no way be put in the same category as, say, the BVI "circulation-like" coin sets of the 1970s that were meant for collectors and never meant to circulate.

This is beginning to remind me of "The Life of Brian" - the part where a member of the Judean Liberation Front says ,"What did the Romans ever do for us?" - supposedly a rhetorical question, but the other members start giving all the answers: roads, aqueducts, ice cream (I jest), etc.  ::)

Consider the US dollar coins up to 2011 and the half dollars up to 2001.
Made to circulation specifications, made in numbers to circulate and the government had every intention that they would/should circulate. Most were available at banks in any quanity or were able to be had in any quanity at face value.

However the public doesn't circulate them.

That to me is "circulation-like coins" that I would catagorized under circulation coins and not collector coins. Not the other coins you likely are referring to which are collector coins that are circulation like in some fashion.

Since 2011 the US dollars and since 2001 the US halves are strictly collector coins. Absolutely no ambuguity about those later coins in my mind.

Dale

 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 04:58:28 PM by <k> »

Offline Pabitra

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2015, 04:37:04 PM »
2013. So was it authorised or wasn't it? That's the trouble that fantasy issues cause - you can't always be sure which is fantasy and which is genuine.

I don't know when the Cook Islands stopped issuing its own coins. They had problems in 1994, when the NZ banks realised that the Cook Islands, which ran a currency board, were not fully backing their notes - each one was backed only 95%! So then the islands returned to using NZ coins and currency, but they still kept those coins of their own, that had already been issued, in circulation. So it's a complex issue. Good to see their hermaphroditic god, Tangaroa, still appears on the dollar.

The 2010 set is a fantasy, irrespective of if any amount was paid to Govt. Of Cook Islands since they were never legal tender.
They have only three coins - 1, 2 and 5$.
All three with the new effigy were issued in 2003 and first two again issued in 2010.
Now a six coin series is being issued.
I work on only circulation coins.

Offline <k>

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2015, 04:50:10 PM »
The 2010 set is a fantasy, irrespective of if any amount was paid to Govt. Of Cook Islands since they were never legal tender.

Well, the consensus seems to be that is a fantasy. However, if the govt. received money for it, then it would be an authorised official collector set and therefore NOT a fantasy. In the UK our five pound collector coins are legal tender, but I doubt whether very many shops would accept them. So legal tender doesn't really account for much. The important things are: is a coin, or set, an official issue? ; and does the public accept coins as spendable money - whether are not they are legal tender.

Offline Pabitra

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Re: Cook Islands: Series of coins 2010
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2015, 02:40:39 AM »
In many countries of European Union, the circulation sets have 1, 2 and 5 cent coins but vending machines do not accept them. Countries like Finland, Belgium and Netherlands do not release 1 cent coin in to circulation. They are legal tender and in cash transactions, accepted without any hitch. 

The moment the monetary Union was signed, the Central Banks of these nations gave up their power to define the legal tender and that prerogative now lies with European Central Bank.

In other words, legal tender is a region specific definition.

5 Pounds in UK is defined as a legal tender but is not in generally accepted terms, a circulating coin. It does not form a part of Royal mint BU set.
1 and 2 p are defined as legal tender, but are not released in to general circulation, are accepted as circulating coins by public at large, mainly due to historical reasons so are circulating coins even though vending machines may not accept them in most of the cases.

I was in USA for three months and travelled across 7 states. Never did I come across a 50 cent or 1 dollar coin. All vending machines, except New York metro ( tube) accepted coins other than quarters.
1 cent coins were accepted at cash counters and freely given.  The mint issues 6 coin BU set but de facto only Nickel, dime and quarter are really circulating coins.