Mughal, Jahangir, Malwa standard falus, Ujjain mint

[asm]

The first coin weighs 5.7g and the second one 6.6 g. I feel both are the same, Mughal emperor Jahangir, Ujjain mint. Please confirm.

Amit

[Oesho]

Jahangir, Ujjain mint, Malwa standard falus.

[asm]

Oesho,

Thanky you for the quick attribution.

Amit

[Rangnath]

The second coin, even with the crack, is a real beauty. 
richie

[asm]

Here is another one...........

Amit

[Overlord]

"Ujjain" and "(Ja)hangir" are fully visible in the last example.

As I remember, Shah Jahan also issued coppers from the same mint with similar legends. Assuming this is correct, how does one distinguish "Shah Jahan" from "Shah Jahan(gir)", when the last part is off the flan?

[asm]

"Ujjain" and "(Ja)hangir" are fully visible in the last example.

Overlord adds that the legend read on the earlier posted coins:

First coin:
...Shah Jahan...

Second coin:
(Fa)lu(s)Sha(h) Jahan...

So how does one attribute the coins to either Jahangir or Shah Jahan? Any specific differences?

Amit

[asm]

The image of the Shah Jahan coins of Malwa on Numismaster for the 1/2 Falus and Falus are greatly different. Also there are 7 coins of Ujjain (Malwa) on Zeno under Jahangir but none under Shah Jahan. Would that not be surprising? I am not sure if any of them would be Shah Jahan coins.

Numismaster / SCWC / KM have made errors as seen in the past (some times wrong images) and if some one has made an error reading the coins of Shah Jahangir without the 'gir' as Shah Jahan...... (instead of Jahangir)....... well you would have a new lot. All the coins of this mint that I have come across for this type look surprisingly similar. 

I was looking up the coins of Shah Jahan and Jahangir and also found that the word 'Jaha' written in these coins of Jahangir is similar to all the specimens seen on Zeno and on this thread but 'Jaha' as seen on Shah Jahan coins is very different. Jahangir coins have 'Jaha' looking like a sword while the 'Jaha' in Shah Jahan is more like a 'W'.

Would appreciate any comments..........

Amit

[Oesho]

Also there are 7 coins of Ujjain (Malwa) on Zeno under Jahangir but none under Shah Jahan. Would that not be surprising? I am not sure if any of them would be Shah Jahan coins.

Of the 7 coins on ZENO, two have been up-loaded by me, viz. #82373 and #82374.
The first one is without doubt in the name of Jahangir, the second may be doubtful. All the other 5 are of the same type as #82374. Unless a coin turns-up with provides a clear name, all the coins of this type have provisionally been listed under Jahangir.

[asm]

Dear Oesho,

Do I read you correct if I understand what you say as:

Since some coins show the reading with the full name as Jahangir, all the coins of this type, including the coins which show only "Jaha" or "Jahan" are also provisionally classified as Jahangir..... and not Shah Jahan.

Amit

PS: I have such coins with different weight standards and will soon weight them to see the actual weight range.....

[Oesho]

all the coins of this type, including the coins which show only "Jaha" or "Jahan" are also provisionally classified as Jahangir..... and not Shah Jahan.

I wanted to say "only on ZENO".
Some may be Shah Jahan, but I have no material available which clearly shows 'Shah Jahan Badshah ...', therefore all coins have been provisionally listed on ZENO under Jahangir.

[asm]

'Shah Jahan Badshah ...',

Yes, this could be the catch. Shah Jahan Badshah  so if the Bad...... is seen after Jahan, it could be confirmed to be a coin of Shah Jahan, otherwise it should be attributed to Jahangir is my assumption correct?

Amit

[Oesho]

 Most copper coins of Shah Jahan have the legend 'falus shah jahani'. The Malwa type differs from the usual Mughal series in weight, form and legend. As written above, of one issue (ZENO #82373)we have no doubt as 'Jaha-ngir' is clearly shown. This coin type is not listed in any of the major museum catalogues, but only in the Supplement to vol. III Mughal Emperors of the Indian Museum (#377).
The other example (ZENO # 82374) reads 'falus shah jaha...(shah?)..'
Punjab Museum Catalogue list no coppers of Ujjain for Jahangir, but lists (but not illustrates) a sq. copper coin on which they read 'Shah Jaha-n' (No. #1457). In the catalogue of the Central Museum Nagpur a copper coin with a similar description (Shah Jaha-n) is illustrated, but on the illustrated piece no Nun is visible.
In the Lucknow Museum Catalogue (No.#2434) a coin is described (but not illustrated) 'falus shah jahan'.
It is curious to observe that in all the museum catalogues, the coppers of Ujjain (except the Ilahi type, ZENO #82373; KM#128.1) are all attributed to Shah Jahan. On account of that I may have to move the majority of the copper coins of Ujjain, listed on ZENO, to Shah Jahan (KM#A204.1).

[asm]

That is very interesting. Look forward to more information.

Amit

[asm]

As Overlord notes in reply 5, one of the three coins above show the name as Jahangir.

Amit