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Iranian civic copper with cheetah attacking an ibex, mint Yazd, c/m Raij

Started by MORGENSTERNN, April 26, 2024, 09:03:04 PM

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MORGENSTERNN

Hello
I bought that iranian coin for the c/m "Raij" but I discovered later (coin in hand) that the remaining details on the host that I though at first sight been the tail of a peacock is in fact the head of an ibex.
Similar coin can be seen on Zeno here
Note that the ibex is different from Zeno coin with 2 ears and a beard

saro

 :applause:
This coin is well from Yazd mint; two are present in B.Alaedini's book, which shows not a lion but a" cheetah attacking a gazelle" (the cheetah attacks the back of the gazelle),  on one, the gazelle has no ear and on the other only one visible, but no beard...
With a beard,, the "gazelle" is more likely an ibex as described on Zeno and the good description becomes : " cheetak attacking an ibex".

"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

MORGENSTERNN

Quote from: saro on April 27, 2024, 08:34:08 AM:applause:
This coin is well from Yazd mint; two are present in B.Alaedini's book, which shows not a lion but a" cheetah attacking a gazelle" (the cheetah attacks the back of the gazelle),  on one, the gazelle has no ear and on the other only one visible, but no beard...
With a beard,, the "gazelle" is more likely an ibex as described on Zeno and the good description becomes : " cheetah attacking an ibex".


thank you for the informations provided

Figleaf

A search revealed that we have several coins on WoC with (different) counterstamps raij or rayij. How can this word be translated and why was the counterstamp used?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

saro

Quote from: Figleaf on April 27, 2024, 01:57:32 PMA search revealed that we have several coins on WoC with (different) counterstamps raij or rayij. How can this word be translated and why was the counterstamp used?

Different possibilities :
- a change in coins value
- to validate an illegible coin
- to validate the use of some other provincial coins or foreign coins after new territorial  conquests.
it seems that many of them were conterstamped by Nadir Shah  during ottoman-prersian wars.
You can see rThis paper.
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

saro

a clear examplar which better shows the animals and mint
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

MORGENSTERNN

Quote from: saro on April 27, 2024, 02:42:22 PMan clear examplar which better shows the animals and mint
Indeed I can see now the shadow of the mint name and a part of the cheetah
Many thanks !

MORGENSTERNN

I have found more about symbolism of those 2 animals on other iranian issues : " Lion seizing a gazelle trying to run away + Lion seizing a kid
: Conquering of Leo on Capricorn; Zodiac symbol for Nowruz, Persian new year"
Source Numista coins here
and here

Figleaf

Pretty good and quite interesting explanation of the symbolism, as well as a great illustration of why Xrefs add value.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

saro

Quote from: Figleaf on April 28, 2024, 02:43:05 PMPretty good and quite interesting explanation of the symbolism, as well as a great illustration of why Xrefs add value.

It seems that over the centuries, this very ancient symbol has been variously interpreted :
As has been demonstrated by Hartner and Ettinghausen, the theme of the "conquering lion" is a very old one, dating to ancient Mesopotamia and Iran. Through out the centuries it was given a multitude of meanings that evolved over time and place. In the Iranian world it was an astronomical symbol for the constellations of Leo and Taurus. The triumphant lion (Leo being the domicile of the sun) destroys the bull, thus allowing the sun to reappear and spring to follow winter. According to Hartner and Ettinghausen, the astronomical symbol may later have given way to the more political meaning of power and royalty.
In ancient Mesopotamian and Iranian images, the lion is fighting with a sizable animal, usually a bull but sometimes also a stag or a deer of the lion's size, to make the combat appear to be between two equal powers, an expression of the summer-winter cycle (fig. 4). In classical and in Byzantine art we find this motif slightly modified with a lion attacking a large horse.
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"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)

Figleaf

Thank you, saro! More value added. This is exactly as it ought to work.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

saro

here an examplar with the full reverse design
"All I know is that I know nothing" (Socrates)