How an obvious fake became fun

[Figleaf]

The seller knew nothing about coins. Neither did the buyer, a dear family member who just wanted to please me. She bought it in a hurry. The piece got lost in her clothes for weeks until it rolled out when it had already been given up.

It is a very obvious fake of a common Chien Lung cash with the mark of the ministry of finance on its behind. The stuff it's made from is wrong. A sliver on top is missing to make it look more genuine, making it look like a fraud instead. Everything it says is sloppy and wrongly formed but the worst is in the heart: Instead of a neat square indicating its place, four lines, all crooked, imitate the real thing enclosing a round opening made with a modern tool that screams out "I am a fake". Everything about this coin is a lie. It never served a purpose. That realisation made me see the parallels: the pack of lies, the screaming hole, the sloppy lines, the unreal language, the affronts to genuine coins looking like it, being unfit for the job, the missing hair, covered up by an orange whig...

The piece has found a place in my collection and it now has a name: T***p.

Peter

[THCoins]

 

[Gusev]

I also liked this topic.
An interesting story about how this "coin" was obtained, as well as a high-quality and interesting analysis.

[SilkroadDilettante]

Hi Peter, a fun story and a fun coin.

Looks like it is possibly pewter? Might I suggest it was not made as a 'fake' but to serve a decorative purpose; it may even be quite old. Chinese have worn, stiched, or otherwise used coins (and coin-looking things) for a long, long time on cothing, charms, occasionally furniture or other items etc, so it may have originally been designed for some other use, rather than to deceive and enter circulation. Izi.

[Figleaf]

You mean well, but no, not pewter. Just colour-adjusted as I played with the contrast so you could actually see the details and not decoration either; more like bait for foolish tourists. Those decorations are usually one-sided (the Chinese have a great dislike of the Manchu script), too big, too thick and even sloppier. This-un has the right size and is a bit too thin. Didn't mention that because it does not at all fit the T***p image.

Peter

[SilkroadDilettante]

You mean well, but no, not pewter. Just colour-adjusted as I played with the contrast so you could actually see the details and not decoration either; more like bait for foolish tourists. Those decorations are usually one-sided (the Chinese have a great dislike of the Manchu script), too big, too thick and even sloppier. This-un has the right size and is a bit too thin. Didn't mention that because it does not at all fit the T***p image.

Peter

Fair enough. To be honest I guess it is not worth wasting too much thought on. I'm sure you also know that some provincial issues of Qing coins were much poorer quality than ones from the China plain. I think probably every single Chinese-issued coin has been faked countless times at this point- but inexpensive ones like this generally have fewer fakes, or fewer convincingly old-looking ones anyway. Having said that I am pretty cautious of anything that has a standard value of over around 10 USD- going on a bit of a tangent now but, walking around some antique dealers earlier this week I did look at some Wang Mang coins (complete with dirt enrustation, convincing multi-coloured patina, etc.) and come to the eventual conclusion they were fake. I think they would probably pass in photos, so this is another reason I am not keen to start bothering with bronze cash coins! Izi.

[pingu]

Hi,

Hopefully you still have the piece, I've missed the post so far.

I think maybe it's not a fake.
A group I have hardly dealt with (this is a very little-known group), but look here:
zeno

You should ask zeno what the experts think of the piece... .

Regards pingu

[Figleaf]

Thank you, Pingu. The coins on Zeno are zinc and the central hole is sort of roundish only. My T***p is bad quality (of course) copper and its hole is big and round, both frontal and rectal. I haven't seen many of these modern Indonesian and Malaysian imitations before, but on the pictures in Zeno they look better than my piece looks in hand. I'll nevertheless ask bgriff99 (same person as Bgriff on Zeno) for his opinion.

T***p was yelling at me as I took it out of the China album: "I'm not a migrant; I'm a Chinese coin", so I put it back where it was, with the other laughing stock frauds.

Peter

[pingu]

Hello,

in the pictures it does not look like copper, hence the note. I hope you find more out about this soon. A very interesting piece in any case. Even if it turns out to be a fake...

pingu

[Figleaf]

This morning, a shocking email from @bgriff99 awaited me. It said:

It is exactly as the group of Bali/ east Java ritual tokens at Zeno.   Unless you have completely de-colorized it, it is zinc.

It was like losing your best enemy.   I undertook the pilgrimage to retrieve the piece from the catacombs (the most recent of my contributions to this thread were from memory). Is it zinc? I am from a generation that grew up with zinc buckets and tubs. I know what zinc looks like. Do I? It's light blueish-grey. Isn't it?

My piece has a different colour than what I call "my memory" said. No red tinge and the discolourations between 3 and 6 o'clock on the obverse and at 9 o'clock on the reverse are purple, not green, as I "remembered" it. However, the metal colour is dark grey, close to black. I lightened it considerably to make it legible, so the discolouration now looks whitish). In hand, the metal looks more like pig (indeed!) iron exposed to moist air. Doubt lingers.

My piece is worse than the items on Zeno bgriff99 posted. For easy comparison, look at the square around the hole. Still, that can happen with different suppliers, likely not overly familiar with the real thing. The hole is easier. The page Pingu linked to shows modern tokens imitating cash, for ritual or decoration. The word modern explains the perfectly round hole.

The story behind at minimum the Indonesian imitations is that traditionally, graves in Chinese graveyards are fitted out with (short) strings of cash, as a symbolic gift of money to the dead. The strings were stolen and the supply of cash coins dried up. Since it is OK to use imitation money for funeral gifts, the cash coins were replaced by imitation coins and paper money, still sold in Chinese shops. This actually fits in with the circumstances at sale: the seller had a small pile of them, all exactly the same and he professed to know nothing about them.

I don't buy "decoration" (see reply #4 above, where I was thinking about furniture decoration), though I have seen - much better, brass - imitations strung up in touristy patterns, like a kris (Indonesian dagger). If you press me, I'll squeak and confess that it could have been a grave gift. However, I'm thinking now that the most likely function is Tourist Trophy. It wouldn't fool a seasoned collector, but kind family members of collectors would fall for it. I remain open for arguments, though.

All thoughts welcome.

Peter

[pingu]

  i love the Storry and i love the coin

It's not quite my collection area but I also find these pieces super interesting. Precisely because they were used for rituals and as death money. In old days - i think everyone in Indonesia knew about the use of the pieces and there was never any confusion with money from circulation.

I have to pick them out on occasion, I think - i have some of them lying around somewhere... . Besides, I have some old (~ 1900) from China, which were chosen for the production of iron buttons (for clothing). But this is something completely different. At some point I will introduce them.

pingu

[Figleaf]

I have some old (~ 1900) from China, which were chosen for the production of iron buttons (for clothing). But this is something completely different. At some point I will introduce them.

Encouragements!

Peter