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Germany: Mainz bridge token for 2 Kreuzer, Casteler Seite

Started by FosseWay, November 04, 2023, 09:57:39 AM

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FosseWay

This recently turned up in a batch of mostly junk ;D

Copper/bronze, 29.1 x 26.4 mm, 6.58 g.

From the text and the ship's wheel, I've identified it as stated above, with the C S either side of the 2 denoting Casteler Seite.

But the other similar 2 Kreuzer tokens are octagonal; I can't find any square(ish) ones online.

Henk

It looks like the token number 10058 listed in Neumann from which the sides have been cut off. Description and picture from Neumann are as follows:


FosseWay

Having also found pictures of the octagonal variant, I wondered if the sides had been cut off. But looking at my token, it doesn't look like they've been messed with. The edge on the "cut" sides looks the same as on the other two, and the corners are rounded.

If this has happened, whoever did it did a good job (and you have to wonder why?), and quite a long time ago.

Figleaf

Simply because you'd gain a bit of copper for free? It looks like the ferry guys did this themselves.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

Henk

There is a catalog listing of the Mainz tokens. It can be found in the Numismatische Zeitung, september 1850 (Neumann gives this reference) available on google books. See column 147 - 151.

FosseWay

Better late than never, but I forgot about this and first now looked up Henk's reference (for which thanks!). The relevant part of the article from 1850 is below.

No. 19 describes the octagonal version of my token:

Vs. Zwischen zwei senkrechten Strichen das mainzer Rad.
Rs. C 2 S / KREUZ / =ER.
Längliche große Marke achteckig 1½ Zoll lang. Reinh. 5526

(I can't read the fractional inch - it may be something other than ½ - but it doesn't really matter.)

No. 20 then goes on to describe a 1 Kreuzer token:

Wie die vorige, jedoch im Rev. C 1 S. und mit abgerundeten Ecken. Kupfer. Reinh. nicht.

It doesn't say it explicitly, but the implication of  mit abgerundeten Ecken could be that the entire angled edge piece on both sides is missing on the 1 Kreuzer, making it square, or at least rectangular. Mine definitely has rounded corners.

Is mine therefore an example of a 2 Kreuzer struck on a blank intended for a 1 Kreuzer?

Figleaf

A Prussian Zoll is 0.96431283219438 inch (1 inch since 1956). In the UK, an inch was traditionally divided in 32 equal parts without a sub-unit name. In practice, 1/8 inch was often the lowest unit. That's handy, because the lower number of the fraction looks like an eight, which in turn makes the upper number likely to be a 3, so that the whole fraction would 1 3/8 or 1.325930144267273 inch or 3.367862566438872 cm. Does that make sense when compared to the length of the planchet?

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

FosseWay

I don't know, because my token isn't on the standard planchet ;) 

Mine is 29.1 x 26.2 mm. In other words, 4 mm or so is "missing" compared to the measurement you give, or 2 mm per side. This seems rather small to accommodate the "missing" ends that would make the token 8-sided.

I haven't done the measurement or arithmetic precisely, but the flanges shown on the illustration in Henk's reply #1 look to me as if they each take up more than two twenty-ninths of the width of the oblong area, if you see what I mean.

FosseWay

A further thought: Mainz was in Hessen, not Prussia. Did they have different inches there?

Figleaf

The text the fraction is in dates from 1850. At that time, I would expect weights and measures in Mainz to be the same as in Prussia.

Probably non-relevant addition: there was a Swiss Zoll that was slightly different from the German Zoll, but I take it the Numismatische Zeitung was German, not Swiss.

Peter
An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.